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Steven Avery

Administrator
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Full real name is Steven Avery Spencer On the internet, for some security reasons, I used Steven Avery about 15 years back and then just liked the nom de plume.

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Kalkas

New member
Hello,

I have a question concerning the Hebrew text underlying the KJV. I have realized that Leningrad Codex was not part of the MT edition underlying KJV (the text of Jacob ben Hayyim). What about Aleppo Codex?

According to the article “Why God’s Name is not Yehovah,”

In the Aleppo and Leningrad codices, יהוה appears with a variety of different vowel markings. Most of the time it appears with only two vowels, whether that be sheva-qamets (יְהוָה) or sheva-chiriq (יְהוִה). Many other times it appears with three vowels, whether that is sheva-cholem-qamets (יְהֹוָה) or sheva-cholem-chiriq (יְהֹוִה). Other variations appear less frequently, such as chatef segol-cholem-chiriq (יֱהֹוִה), which occurs once,and chatef segol-chiriq (יֱהוִה), which occurs twice.

Those variations that point to Elohim have very few times the expected chatef segal (which is the first vowel of Elohim), but mostly sheva. This would support the view that vowel changes were present even when used in ketiv-qere. I wonder whether the MT underlying KJV was different with that regard, i.e., the vowel chatef segal appeared frequently when pointing to read Elohim?

I have to concede that my principal reason for preferring Yehovah/Jehovah is that KJV supports it. I am also of firm belief that KJV translators knew about the scribal practice of ketiv-qere; just observe the translators’ own practice in that they used small caps LORD and GOD instead of translating in all instances with “Jehovah.” Why would they use LORD and GOD unless they were familiar with the scribal practise in question? That tells me that they had very good reasons to accept the name “Jehovah” as the sacred name of the God of the Bible.

Kind regards,
Aleksandar
 

Kalkas

New member
Hello agin,

I am a little bit uncertain how to regard the Leningrad codex. I regard the Masoretic Text of Jacob Ben Chayyim as the Received Text of the Hebrew Scriptures. But I am not so certain how to regard editions after KJV. I am very skeptical towards Rudolph Kittel’s edition, which is much based upon the Leningrad Codex. Dr. D. A. Waite expressed some concerns about it, see the article on the Textus Receptus site. How is your take on it?

Kind regards,
Aleksandar
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
I think the printed edition of the Bomberg 2nd Rabbinic Bible (maybe the first as well) standardized on the correct vowels most of the time. sheva-cholem-qamets

However, that should be checked, I can ask on the Facebook forum.

The learned men of the AV did not just use the 2nd Rabbinic, that is a myth. It is lacuna at the Joshua 21:36-37 verses (with a note). Has the wrong text on Psalm 22:16. I can check the Nehemiah 7:68 verse. A question on 1 Samuel 6:19.

They had access to about a dozen Masoretic editions, at least. And likely manuscripts.
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Psalm 22:16 - the Ben Hayim rabbinic Bible and the Drusius report
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...m-rabbinic-bible-and-the-drusius-report.1673/

Masoretic Text == Textus Receptus (OT) and first use Textus Receptus and Received Text
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...t-use-textus-receptus-and-received-text.1633/

I may be able to find more.
Here is one.

Facebook - Textus Receptus Academy
https://upload.facebook.com/groups/...k/756858895159975/?comment_id=758373805008484

I'll ask Nick Sayers to update the textus-receptus site.
 
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I'm interested in knowing how many copies of Jerome's Prologue to the Canonical Epistles have been discovered. I have heard that their are many, but not sure what that means quantitatively. It would appear to put to rest any critical claim that it was not from Jerome if there is both early attestation to copies existing and that there being many seems to indicate their authoritative acceptance as Truth. Since we know the relative date of codex Fuldensis, the early part seems to be provided for, but is there a number for the actual known copies to give the additional weight?
 

Ben Avraham

New member
I have been checking my email, and no confirmation email has arrived. I have requested three times, and still no confirmation email, not in my regular mail, nor in my spam. Your email address bounced back, "over the quota" it read
 

Johannes

New member
Good afternoon, Avery.

I (although I do not know if I am the first since it was indexed already) discovered a strange reading in a multilingual manuscript with a friend of mine. He helped in the translation of the Arabic.

Note: The Arabic readings might not be exact, since it is modern Arabic.

While doing scholarly work on the evidence favoring the Johannine Comma, I discovered the strange reading in the Arabic of Minuscule 460 (I added this to Wikipedia, too; it is an interesting finding), a three-columned manuscript (each column representing one language in this order, Greek, Latin, and Arabic) has different readings in folio 115v, which is 1 John 5:4-13 if I recall correctly. The Greek column omits the Heavenly Witnesses in its entirety (unless I am reading incorrectly after v. 8, but it doesn't have "on earth"). The Latin column has the Heavenly after the Earthly, and the apodosis of v. 6 reads: "SPS est veritas" (Spirit is the truth), meaning it is likely not Vulgate inspired, and the Arabic, reads "on earth" (الأرض, or a very similar reading since the manuscript is of the 13th century), my friend helped translate and asked 4 Arabic speakers (2 Muslims and 2 Christians) which all agreed that it was on earth, or on land. (Line 13). But the Arabic omits v. 7 if I am correct, although I did not investigate the following lines. Interestingly, v. 6 also has Spirit is the truth (".لان الروح هو الحق (Line 11) لذي يشهد"). Which I used as an argument against it being from a Vulgate reading. Here I attach the image of the Arabic. It would be amazing if you could revise this with the manuscript team or with a greater analysis.

The manuscript is available here (Folio 115v): https://www.internetculturale.it/jm...:VE0049:CSTOR.240.9602&mode=all&teca=marciana

The burgundy square represents on earth.

AD_4nXecH3JFAOGkVuCcKvjvkUFnpF89yNd7wux11UTyTWqpD5oDrZRx4PkS3UFHB1AnSVuKtatPidHlM-nFOlNLc9zGnNERK-XFjPK-oabXQ99T3sfBRAdRekBMLeUw4Td9nyw5o201sQ


Here is the complete image of the 3 columns, I had not investigated the Arabic at that moment, but the "on earth" should be in the same line as the aqua & sanguine & hi tres unum sunt of the Latin. The red marks symbolize the Comma and the Earthly in Greek.

image.png


Correct me if anything.
Have a nice day. Pax vobiscum.
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Good afternoon, Avery.

I (although I do not know if I am the first since it was indexed already) discovered a strange reading in a multilingual manuscript with a friend of mine. He helped in the translation of the Arabic.


Yes, interesting.

Mike Ferrando might be a good contact on this.

Seeing "on earth" implies an earlier manuscript with "in heaven".

I cleaned up this forum, and I could set up a special Arabic manuscript discussion!
 
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Oseas

Member
Greetings in Christ JESUS,
Steven Avery

Concerning Matthew 27:9 - 9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

It seems there is an error of translation. Is there any discussion of this translation error? I am not aware that Jeremiah also prophesied this, are you?

Thank you for your attention.



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