Steven Avery
Administrator
Three early old Latin mss.
Freisinger Fragment
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/freisinger-fragment.2202/
Legionensis- Palimpsest
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/codex-legionensis.2204/
Speculum (m)
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/speculum.1888/
=========
Pure Bible Forum
index of Old Latin - Speculum, Friesinger, Leon, and more
placing Leon Palimpsest, Freisinger Fragment, Speculum et al as Old Latin, Vulgate, hybrid
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...culum-et-al-as-old-latin-vulgate-hybrid.2543/
===========
ADDED: Aug 1, 2024 - see note on post #7
URL
Laparola
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7
Waltz
http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/Versions.html#OldLatin
Old Latin Witnesses -- Catholics
this list omits some "Old Latin" witnesses cited in UBS4. Examples include are dem in Acts. The reason is that these are actually Vulgate witnesses with occasional Old Latin readings; they will be discussed under the Vulgate.
Scrivener (text below)
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650
Vulgate Prologue list from Travis
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53
Notes on the early history of the Vulgate Gospels - John Chapman
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
Note: Maynard, p. 344. This was compiled by W. Theile. I did not take down the legend to decipher those abbreviations. But I translated a Spanish article where they are nearly all explained.
=====================================================
Contra
ar = Book of Armagh - Dublinensis Dubliniensis listed under Vulgate by Waltz
http://books.google.com/books?id=Drk7AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA455
the disputed clause is wanting in the copy of Jerome's Latin Version of the New Testament, found in the celebrated "Book of Armagh," a precious manuscript written in the seventh century by Aldus, bishop of Slepten ...in pure Irish characters, intermixed with Greek.
Scrivener reference below.
==================================================
Pro
(placed with church writers)
Here are the Old Latin mss that are listed in the apparatus as with the heavenly witnesses.
it-c Colbertinus
it-dem Demidovianus
it-div Divionensis
it-l Legionensis
it-m Speculum
it-p Perpignan
it-q Monacensis/Friesinger
(now it-r 64)
There is one contra
it-ar Book of Armagh
Not in the apparatus but worthy of inclusion
leon1 - Lemovicensis - pro
leon 2 - margin
harl ( one or two Harleian ms)
c M
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911
QUESTION -
Speculum - multiple Speculum manuscripts ? - is more than one early ? perhaps Speculum m does have multiple citations.
What is ff .. some notes plan to be condensed in own post
c M Beuron
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 13 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 67 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911
===============================================================
Total count about 7 to 1, if Armagh is listed Old Latin , with 1 or 2 margin possibilities below
======================
FIVE THAT SOMETIMES MIGHT BE GIVEN IN OLD LATIN LISTS, or OTHER NUANCES LIKE LECTIONARY
NOT IN ABOVE APPARATUS
=====================================================
LEON MS
Lemovicensis (leon1) - yes, in varied/mutilated form .. Scrivener
(Placed under Vulgate by Waltz - L = Lemovicensis IXc "Mixed" text, containing a part of 1 John 5:7)
Maynard p. 51
923 AD.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BFtQOr7zsnYC&pg=PA87
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
leon 2 - margin only ("Old Latin being replaced by the Vulgate" - Scrivener)
930 AD -
Maynard p. 51
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
These are pretty much agreed upon, the issues are more on category.
=========================================================
HARLEIAN MS
harl 2 - Harleian 1772 - VIII -
750 AD -
Maynard p. 50 - yes per Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA355
Would like to confirm this as a yes. Is there the Harleianis lectionary entry ?
Needs more research to confirm.
Porter - Textual Criticism
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502
So Porter says there are two Harleian manuscripts, one with margin, one in the text !
Pohle says no on one Harleian - no specific ms.
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36
===============================================================
Tepl -
Maynard p. 61-65 - not in apparatus.
"No scholarly work in print has ever acknowledged the Comma in the Tepl. "
===============================================
Plain Introduction -
Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is pretty sold that the lectionaries were updated with the Reformation text.
The 10th century is often a real cutoff-point, since the Uncials in Greek become cursives and numbers increase.
Thus these additional manuscripts come to play in Latin ms, should check which have Prologue, perhaps in Travis info above. On the Vulgate, here, only the positive info is being given
VULGATE PRO
VERSE PROLOGUE MYN
Fuldensis 6th (Prologue only) NO....... YES p. 46
Wizanburgensis 8th YES
Ulmensis 8th c.........................................YES p.50
Sangallensis 8thc ... (maybe 5th).................. .YES..........YES............RB Franco-Span (note Brown mentioning plural) Theodulphianus 8th-9th.......................................YES. ............................RB Franco-Spanish
Cavensis 9th c.........................................YES ............................RB-Spanish La Cava
Toletanus 10th c maybe written 8th.............YES.....................p.51 RB-Spanish- (leading) - 988 AD
Complutensis 10th ..(or 9th) .............................YES.............................RB 1st Bible of Alcala....
Jenkins Bede ms - Maynard p. 50
MS BALL 177 12 c......(Bede)...........................YES...................p.239 (Westcott? Naples?)
Karolinus 9th c MS. 10546 Bible-Charlem) (?) the Bible of Grandval
Shalom,
Steven
Freisinger Fragment
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/freisinger-fragment.2202/
Legionensis- Palimpsest
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/codex-legionensis.2204/
Speculum (m)
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/speculum.1888/
=========
Pure Bible Forum
index of Old Latin - Speculum, Friesinger, Leon, and more
placing Leon Palimpsest, Freisinger Fragment, Speculum et al as Old Latin, Vulgate, hybrid
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...culum-et-al-as-old-latin-vulgate-hybrid.2543/
===========
ADDED: Aug 1, 2024 - see note on post #7
URL
Laparola
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7
Waltz
http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/Versions.html#OldLatin
Old Latin Witnesses -- Catholics
this list omits some "Old Latin" witnesses cited in UBS4. Examples include are dem in Acts. The reason is that these are actually Vulgate witnesses with occasional Old Latin readings; they will be discussed under the Vulgate.
Scrivener (text below)
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650
Vulgate Prologue list from Travis
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53
Notes on the early history of the Vulgate Gospels - John Chapman
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
Note: Maynard, p. 344. This was compiled by W. Theile. I did not take down the legend to decipher those abbreviations. But I translated a Spanish article where they are nearly all explained.
=====================================================
Contra
ar = Book of Armagh - Dublinensis Dubliniensis listed under Vulgate by Waltz
http://books.google.com/books?id=Drk7AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA455
the disputed clause is wanting in the copy of Jerome's Latin Version of the New Testament, found in the celebrated "Book of Armagh," a precious manuscript written in the seventh century by Aldus, bishop of Slepten ...in pure Irish characters, intermixed with Greek.
Scrivener reference below.
==================================================
Pro
(placed with church writers)
Here are the Old Latin mss that are listed in the apparatus as with the heavenly witnesses.
it-c Colbertinus
it-dem Demidovianus
it-div Divionensis
it-l Legionensis
it-m Speculum
it-p Perpignan
it-q Monacensis/Friesinger
(now it-r 64)
There is one contra
it-ar Book of Armagh
Not in the apparatus but worthy of inclusion
leon1 - Lemovicensis - pro
leon 2 - margin
harl ( one or two Harleian ms)
c M
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911
QUESTION -
Speculum - multiple Speculum manuscripts ? - is more than one early ? perhaps Speculum m does have multiple citations.
What is ff .. some notes plan to be condensed in own post
c M Beuron
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 13 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 67 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911
===============================================================
Total count about 7 to 1, if Armagh is listed Old Latin , with 1 or 2 margin possibilities below
======================
FIVE THAT SOMETIMES MIGHT BE GIVEN IN OLD LATIN LISTS, or OTHER NUANCES LIKE LECTIONARY
NOT IN ABOVE APPARATUS
=====================================================
LEON MS
Lemovicensis (leon1) - yes, in varied/mutilated form .. Scrivener
(Placed under Vulgate by Waltz - L = Lemovicensis IXc "Mixed" text, containing a part of 1 John 5:7)
Maynard p. 51
923 AD.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BFtQOr7zsnYC&pg=PA87
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
leon 2 - margin only ("Old Latin being replaced by the Vulgate" - Scrivener)
930 AD -
Maynard p. 51
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
These are pretty much agreed upon, the issues are more on category.
=========================================================
HARLEIAN MS
harl 2 - Harleian 1772 - VIII -
750 AD -
Maynard p. 50 - yes per Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA355
Would like to confirm this as a yes. Is there the Harleianis lectionary entry ?
Needs more research to confirm.
Porter - Textual Criticism
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502
So Porter says there are two Harleian manuscripts, one with margin, one in the text !
Pohle says no on one Harleian - no specific ms.
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36
===============================================================
Tepl -
Maynard p. 61-65 - not in apparatus.
"No scholarly work in print has ever acknowledged the Comma in the Tepl. "
===============================================
Plain Introduction -
Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is pretty sold that the lectionaries were updated with the Reformation text.
The 10th century is often a real cutoff-point, since the Uncials in Greek become cursives and numbers increase.
Thus these additional manuscripts come to play in Latin ms, should check which have Prologue, perhaps in Travis info above. On the Vulgate, here, only the positive info is being given
VULGATE PRO
VERSE PROLOGUE MYN
Fuldensis 6th (Prologue only) NO....... YES p. 46
Wizanburgensis 8th YES
Ulmensis 8th c.........................................YES p.50
Sangallensis 8thc ... (maybe 5th).................. .YES..........YES............RB Franco-Span (note Brown mentioning plural) Theodulphianus 8th-9th.......................................YES. ............................RB Franco-Spanish
Cavensis 9th c.........................................YES ............................RB-Spanish La Cava
Toletanus 10th c maybe written 8th.............YES.....................p.51 RB-Spanish- (leading) - 988 AD
Complutensis 10th ..(or 9th) .............................YES.............................RB 1st Bible of Alcala....
Jenkins Bede ms - Maynard p. 50
MS BALL 177 12 c......(Bede)...........................YES...................p.239 (Westcott? Naples?)
Karolinus 9th c MS. 10546 Bible-Charlem) (?) the Bible of Grandval
Shalom,
Steven
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