comparing the Hermas New Finds to the editions of Simonides

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Hermas and Barnabas projects - Athous compared to Sinaiticus New Finds - Latinized words from Donaldson in papyri and mss - bibliography
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...latinized-word-from-donaldson-in-papyri.2818/

=======================

Similitude 9 is
9. 78-110.

Similitude 9 starts here

First Hermas - Anger and Dindorf 1855-1856 Simonides
Hermae pastor: Graece primum ediderunt et interpretationem veterum latinam
https://books.google.com/books?id=QEVMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA81

91 should be #14
https://books.google.com/books?id=QEVMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA95

This would be 91:1 too early
1665704708588.png


2nd Book - 1856 - Simonides and Tischendorf edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1
Simulitudes Begins
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA33
Similitudes IX - 16 - the spot used for 3-way comparison
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA60

Codex Sinaiticus
https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manu...lioNo=1&lid=en&quireNo=95&side=v&zoomSlider=0


This is from the Sinaiticus Text, not needed as it is adjusted below to go line by line
91 verse 4-5
4
νοηϲε παντα γαρ με
γαλα και ενδοξα ε
ϲτιν και δυϲνοητα
εϲτιν τοιϲ ανοιϲ
5
ακουε φηϲτιν το ο
νομα του ϋϊου του
θυ αχωρητον εϲτι
και μεγα και ενδο
ξον και ολον τον
κοϲμον αυτο εϲτι
βαϲταζον ει ουν φη
ϲι παϲα η κτιϲηειϲ
του θυ δια του ϋϊου
αυτου βαϲταζεται
τι δοκειϲ τουϲ κε
κλημενουϲ υπο
αυτου και το ονο
μα φορουνταϲ και
πορευομενουϲ
εν τεϲ εντολαιϲ
Click to expand...
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
p. 97
1665704968817.png


This is the Sinaiticus Text Lined up to match the first book.

David
There were no notations of nomina sacra or of the word endings, the lines above the text. I know that is hard. But it explains the abbreviations and the missing nu (movable nu)

93:1 is a good spot.

93:1
ετι φημι κε δηλω ϲον τι φηϲιν
επι ζητιϲ διατι φημι κε ο̣[ι] λιθοι εκ του
βυθου ανεβηϲαν κ(αι) ειϲ την οικοδομη ετεθηϲαν του πυρ
γου πεφορεκοτεϲ
τα πνα ταυτα ·


93:1
ετι φημι κε δηλω
ϲον τι φηϲιν επι
ζητιϲ διατι φημι
κε ο̣[ι] λιθοι εκ του
βυθου ανεβηϲαν κ(αι)
ειϲ την οικοδομη
ετεθηϲαν του πυρ
γου πεφορεκοτεϲ
τα πνα ταυτα ·

2
[αναγκη]ν̣ φη̣[ϲι]ν̣ ε̣[ι] §

This is the second book, largely identical
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA60
1666743079211.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
93:1 is a good spot.

93:1
ετι φημι κε δηλω ϲον τι φηϲιν
επι ζητιϲ διατι φημι κε ο̣[ι] λιθοι εκ του
βυθου ανεβηϲαν κ(αι) ειϲ την οικοδομη ετεθηϲαν του πυρ
γου πεφορεκοτεϲ
τα πνα ταυτα ·


93:1
ετι φημι κε δηλω
ϲον τι φηϲιν επι
ζητιϲ διατι φημι
κε ο̣[ι] λιθοι εκ του
βυθου ανεβηϲαν κ(αι)
ειϲ την οικοδομη
ετεθηϲαν του πυρ
γου πεφορεκοτεϲ
τα πνα ταυτα ·

2
[αναγκη]ν̣ φη̣[ϲι]ν̣ ε̣[ι] §
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
This involves comparing a short section of the Shepherd of Hermas in the New Finds of Sinaiticus (1975) with the same section in the Simonides Shepherd of Hermas.

If they really had independent heritage, differences would be substantial. If they are almost identical, that gives evidence of production connection, and could be placed in a paper, for academia.edu and/or a specialized Journal

The idea is to start with one verse, and the whole project might just be about 15 book lines. From a probability perspective, that should give an answer.

Tischendorf possibly discarded this Hermas section precisely because of its similarity to the previously published Simonides book.

And I can share a bit more,

e.g. about controls, which could include the earlier section of Sinaiticus or the Papyri.

And how there are two Simonides editions that in fact may be textually identical, simply differing line lengths.

Also, I have isolated a good section in Similitudes. The Sinaiticus text has wonderful transcription from the CSP, Codex Sinaiticus Project.

=======

In fact, it is an open secret that the text of Sinaiticus Hermas is “wrong”, in that it is far away from the truly ancient Hermas Greek texts, that are in a number of papyri. Different vorlage.

In addition, James Donaldson said it was linguistically wrong, too much later Latin influence, similar to the original Tischendorf accusation, although some of his examples were countered using modern search tools.

I mention this simply for background.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Finding overlap with papyri
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...-1859-simoneidos-and-new-finds.759/#post-1588

==========

textexcavation

The Shepherd of Hermas.

There is one apocalypse attributed to Hermas of Rome listed in some ancient canons.
www.textexcavation.com

ccel. What edition?

==========

Hermas New Finds online
65.5-68.5 (from parable 6,7.8) - part is missing and part could be on plate 9, but unlikely
91.4-95.5 (part of parable 9, which is 78-110) - likely plate 11

First section, if we can find Leipzig pages or use an edition like 1863 Dressel, can be compared to these Greek papyri (two other fragments are very small)
-- Michigan papyrus 129 (M), century III. Greek (contains 51.8-82.1) - this includes the first leaf
-- Berlin papyrus 6789, century VI, (contains 67.1-12) - a part of the first leaf

Second section, in addition to Athous, can be compared only to a small fragment
-- Amherst papyrus II 190, century V or VI, Greek, in seven fragments including 94.1, 3-4;

This could be closely connected to Athous, or it could be closely connected to Vulgate or Palantine.
==========================================

p.384 has papyri sections
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
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