the correspondence of Paul and Seneca - Rufus Pudens Pudentius

Steven Avery

Administrator
Barbara Thiering claimed authentic.

Paul and Seneca in Dialogue (2017)
David Briones
https://www.academia.edu/3430166/Pa..._Philosophy_and_Religion_2_Leiden_Brill_2017_

The Correspondence between Saint Apostle Paul and Seneca (2010)
Sergei Rjabchikov -
https://www.academia.edu/39892159/The_Correspondence_between_Saint_Apostle_Paul_and_Seneca

Final Decade Before the End - Jewish and Christian History Just Before the Final Revolt (2020)
Edward E. Stevens -
sent note in Academia.edu
https://www.academia.edu/30156418/Final_Decade_Stevens



To Edward Stevens

Hi Edward, greetings!
Nice paper, chronology etc.
I was wondering if anyone has gone through that Barbara Thiering material about the authenticity of the Paul and Seneca correspondence. I may have that yahoogroups stuff on my other puter.
And what is your thinking?
Thanks!
Steven Avery


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The Last Decade Before the End (2020)
Ed Stevens
https://archive.org/details/the-last-decade-issuu/page/181/mode/2up?q=Seneca
https://archive.org/details/the-last-decade-issuu/

This caught my eye while doing online research about the fire in Rome and the persecution of Christians afterwards. It is an article on the Internet defending the authenticity of the letter exchanges between Apostle Paul and Senecathe Younger (the advisor to Nero). The letter from Seneca dated AD 64 mentions the Fire in Rome. The writer of that article, Dr. Barbara Thiering, made some very interesting arguments for the authenticity of these letters between Paul and Seneca, which must be objectively evaluated, since almost all modern scholars consider these letters to be spurious. However, even if spurious, they might still contain tidbits of truth which were preserved by the third or fourth century writer who created them. Their supposed third century origin alone makes them valuable for study. It at least tells us what the third century Christians believed about these things. Here are a few excerpts from Thiering’s article:

The belief that Christianity came to Rome only through the lowest social classes, not working its way up until the time of Constantine, has been responsible for overlooking one of the most vital historical documents of all. The correspondence between Paul and the famous Stoic philosopher Seneca was preserved in the early church, accepted as genuine by the scholarly church fathers Jerome and Augustine, but categorically rejected as spurious by modern critics. Ernst Bickel believed that it originated in the 3rd century: “This correspondence presents a mythical expression of the historical process of fusion which came about in Italy...of Christianity on the one hand and, on the other, the ancient culture of the rhetoricians.”



...[The last letter of Seneca to Paul is dated] AD 64, in which Seneca begins: “Can you possibly think that I am not distressed and grieved that capital punishment is still visited upon you innocent persons? As also that all the people are convinced of your cruelty and criminal malignity, believing that all evil in the city is owing to you” … ]

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The Correspondence between Paul and Seneca
Barbara Thiering (June, 2005)
http://www.peshertechnique.infinitesoulutions.com/The_Other_Gospels/Paul_and_Seneca.html

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Steven Avery

Administrator
Rome: an early persecutor of the church? (1982)
Samuele R. Bacchiocchi (1938-2008)
https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1982/12/rome-an-early-persecutor-of-the-church


The late Christian tradition of an alleged correspondence between Paul and Seneca suggests the possibility that Seneca became acquainted with Paul, especially since Seneca's beloved brother, Gallic, did hear and acquit Paul in Corinth in A.D. 51 and since Paul himself claimed to have had Christian friends within "Caesar's household" (Phil. 4:22).

Philippians 4:22 (AV)
All the saints salute you,
chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.

Acts 18:12-17 (AV)
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat, Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.
And when Paul was now about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdness, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you: But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law, look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters. And he drave them from the judgment seat. Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.


The proconsul of Achaia, Junius Lucius Gallic (brother of Seneca), ignored the charge leveled by the Jews in Corinth against Paul, of "persuading men to worship God contrary to the law" (Acts 18:12), declaring the matter to be merely "questions about words and names and your own [Jewish] law" (verse 15).
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
http://dream-prophecy.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-ancient-christology-of-shepherd-of.html
The Ancient Christology of the Shepherd of Hermas (2016)

What is interesting here, is that Hermas, the author of the work, may have known the apostle Paul, for Paul mentions a Hermas in one of his letters:

Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord; also his mother, who has been a mother to me as well. Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas, and the brothers who are with them. (Rom. 16:13-14)

As a side note, what many people do not realize is that Rufus is one Rufus Pudens Pudentius, a Roman Senator thats known in Roman history. He and the apostle Paul were likely half brothers. Rufus married one Claudia, also mentioned in the epistle of Romans, who was of British royalty (see British Royalty: Founders of the Roman Church). So Hermas is likely a real person as well who lived in Rome, and as early as the 2nd century there was a tradition that it was this same Hermas who wrote The Shepherd of Hermas.

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Comment from Doug Webber about two authors.

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Q – As I read through the last chapter in Acts, I wonder how Paul “paid rent” while living in Rome.

Jim – Well, that verse says that Paul lived in a hired house, or rented home, but it does not say that he paid the rent. He was under a form of house arrest. But, Paul had very wealthy, powerful friends in Rome.

Briefly, Paul mentions in his second letter to Timothy, written from Rome, that “Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren” sent greetings. Now, this guy “Pudens” is Rufus Pudens, known in Rome as Rufus Pudens Pudentius. He’s the same guy that Paul sent greetings to as he wrapped up his letter to Rome, prior to his arrival there in chains – “Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.” (Rom 16:13)

Rufus Pudens was married to Claudia, and he was a Roman Senator and former personal aide to the roman commander-in-Chief, Aulus Plautius. This Plautius was married to Gladys, the sister of Caractacus, or Caradoc, the hero of the Briton/Roman wars. Now, when Caractacus was captured and the Emperor Claudius inexplicably spared his life, he was ordered to reside in Rome for seven years, so as not to start a new revolt in Britain. When Paul arrived in Rome, Caractacus would have had three years left to serve.

Caradoc’s family resided at Palatium Britannicum – the Palace of Britain – that soon after became a famous Christian sanctuary. Later, it was named St. Pdentiana, after Rufus Pudens, which name it retains to this day. Both the palace and the grounds were bequeathed by Timotheus – eldest son of Pudens and Claudia, later the Bishop of Ephesus – to the Church at Rome

Now, given Paul’s greeting, and substantial historic evidence, Paul’s mother was living in Rome at that time with the Pudens family. Pudens and Paul, then, were half-brothers. (I know that some try to make the argument that Paul was referring to Rufus’s mother as his “spiritual mother,” but Paul reserved such language for those who were responsible for conversion, and Christ converted Paul personally. So, that argument falls apart. At face value, Paul was referring to his own, flesh and blood mom.)

Meanwhile, this palace became the first substantial “above ground” Church at Rome, and the services appear to have been conducted by Hermes, who is mentioned in Rom. 16:14. This was primarily the church of the Gentiles, while the church of the circumcised met at the house of Aquila and Priscilla (Rom. 16:3-5; 1Cor. 16:19; 2 Tim. 4:19). If they sound familiar, they were the family that Paul stayed with in Corinth during the time that Claudius banned the Jews from Rome. After the death of Claudius, they moved back to Rome and set up a church in their home. They were the “tentmakers” that Paul lived with in Corinth. (Hey, this all ties in!!!)

Meanwhile, this guy Linus that we spoke of earlier was the son of Caractacus, and was appointed by Paul as the first Bishop of Rome. St. Clement, the third bishop of Rome, attests to that fact.

So close was Paul with this royal, wealthy family that when he was beheaded at Aquae Slaviae, a little way out of Rome, the royal family consigned his remains with their own hands to the Pudentinian family tomb on the Ostain Road.

So, I said all this to say that Paul was well cared for in Rome. His letters managed to cover the whole Asia Minor and the Roman provinces – no mean feat in that day! He had means and he had support. He was well connected, even up to the household of Caesar, through his adopted daughter Claudia, the daughter of Caractacus.
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Ernst Bickel believed that it originated in the 3rd century:

“This correspondence presents a mythical expression of the historical process of fusion which came about in Italy...of Christianity on the one hand and, on the other, the ancient culture of the rhetoricians.”

Ernst Bickel (1876-1951)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Bickel

, " Seneca und Seneca - Mythus ,
Das Altertum, 5 (1959






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THE CHRISTIAN AFTER-LIFE OF SENECA THE YOUNGER The First Four Hundred Years
Joan Stivala
https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/9765/1/02Whole_Stivala.pdf
 
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Steven Avery

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Paul and Senaca
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/paulseneca.html

Information on the Letters of Paul and Seneca

Cornelia Römer writes, "the letters were of great importance for the legend which brought Seneca into connection with Christianity. Down to the beginning of the Renaissance they were regarded as genuine. Today the 4th century A.D. is generally assumed to be the period of their origin. In favour of this are not only linguistic and stylistic considerations (on which see E. Liénhard in Revue belge de philologie et d'histoire 11, 1932, 5-32), but above all the mention of the correspondence by Jerome in 392 (de Vir. Ill. 12, see below), whereas it is clear from the Divinae institutiones of Lactantius (VI 24.13-14) of the year 324 that these letters did not yet lie before him." (New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 2, pp. 46-47)

Claudio Moreschini writes, "Seneca's renown among Christians appeared quite early. Tertullian speaks of him as a writer who is 'often one of ours.' Lactantius opines that 'Seneca could have been a true devotee of God if someone had shown God to him' (Inst. 6.24). It is not surprising, then, that during the Constantinian period one product of the typical religious syncretism of that age was this apocryphal correspondence. The letters were known as early as Jerome (Vir. ill. 12), who was thereby confirmed in his persuasion that there had been a real affinity between Seneca and Christianity, so much so that he included Seneca among the 'famous men' of the Christian religion. This correspondence, consistent of eight letters from Seneca and six from Paul, is not especially interesting and contains nothing more than an exchange of polite greetings. Even though it makes rather disappointing reading, it enjoyed a certain fame subsequently." (Early Christian Greek and Latin Literature, vol. 1, p. 405)

G. Röwekamp writes, "A supposed secret correspondence between Paul and Seneca is first attested by Jerome (vir. ill. 12; see also Augustine, ep. 153.14) and was considered authentic down into the 15th c. The content of the fourteen letters is philosophical and of little theological importance; they contain primarily manifestations of friendship. Seneca finds fault with the style of Paul's letters. The eleventh letter is especially notable, concerning as it does the burning of Rome and the persecution of Christians, with the author drawing on an unknown source. This letter is possibly later than the other letters, which were written in the 4th c. The collection may possibly be an exercise in the schools of rhetoric; there is perhaps a connection with the attempt to link Seneca to Judaism by means of a fictive letter of high priest Anna against idolatry (Pseudo-Seneca)." (Dictionary of Early Christian Literature, p. 462)

Cornelia Römer writes, "The origins of the manuscript tradition available to us can be traced back to the 5th century (the oldest codex derives from the 9th century). The great quantity of the manuscripts presents numerous variants and corruptions, so that some passages even today are not certainly cleared up (letter VIII)." (New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 2, p. 47)

Claudio Moreschini writes, "A comparable forgery of the Constantinian age is the Letter of Annas to Seneca, recently discovered by B. Bischoff and preserved in fragmentary form. According to its author, the letter was written by Annas, the high priest from 62 to 68, and sent to the brethren as an exhortation to avoid idolatrous worship. But given this purpose, why would it have been sent to Seneca, as the title claims? The author must have been a Jew." (Early Christian Greek and Latin Literature, vol. 1, p. 405)

S. Döpp writes, "Probably toward the end of the 4th c. there appeared in Rome an antipagan prose work that praises the omnipotence of the one God; the work was discovered by B. Bischoff in Cologne and published in 1984 under the title Ep. Anne ad Senecam de superbia et idolis; Bischoff supposed that the fictitious letter writer was a high priest named Anna. J. Divjak, however, maintains that the Jewish origin of the text is by no means certain: the name Anna could have been due to a mistaken reading of a subscription Ep. Annei Senecae; in addition, the work is not really a letter but a sermon (sermo) against polytheism. Finally, A. Hilhorst considers the work to be a piece of Christian literature. The establishment of the text is not yet complete." (Dictionary of Early Christian Literature, p. 528)

Cornelia Römer writes, "New aspects for the whole discussion could result from a 'Letter of the high priest Annas to the philosopher Seneca', recently published by B. Bischoff. The correspondence between Seneca and Paul could have originated as a counterblast to this letter of a Jewish author, likewise to be regarded as fictitious, with the aim of making the philosopher appear in association with a representative of the Christian faith (so B. Bischoff, 'Der Brief des Hohenpriesters Annas an den Philosophen Seneca - eine jüdisch-apologetische Missionsschrift (Viertes Jahrhundert?)', in Anecdota novissima. Texte des vierten bis sechzehnten Jahrhunderts, 1984, 1-9, esp. p. 5)." (New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 2, p. 47)


 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Seneca: The Life of a Stoic (2002)
By Paul Veyne
https://books.google.com/books?id=eg0fDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT247


Paul Veyne (1930-2022)
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Paul Berry
Correspondence between Paul and Seneca, A.D. 61-65

Berry has now followed up that work with one on The Correspondence between Paul and Seneca, A.D. 61-65. Latinists have, of course, known of this correspondence, but the liberal scholars of recent centuries have tended to dismiss it as probably spurious. A new school of modern scholars, like Berry, are once again arguing for its authenticity, which, if granted, provides strong proof that St. Paul was as articulate in the language of the Caesars as he was in that of Pericles.

Berry is a strong scholarly advocate of the position that the primary language of Christianity in Italy was not Greek, even from the Apostolic Age, but Latin. In this, he confirms the contentions of one of the Traditional Latin Mass's greatest historians and rubricists, Adrian Fortescue.

 
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