Steven Avery
Administrator
A summary - the context was comments on:
David W. Daniel's book:
Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?
where to read and purchase Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php/threads/a.500/post-996
the other side has not presented arguments that are germane to the fundamentals:
(How should David present and rebut that which does not exist?)
Pure Bible
Steven Avery - Feb 14, 2018
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/1603903833034833/
PureBibleForum
Sinaiticus - authentic antiquity or modern?
http://www.purebibleforum.com/forumdisplay.php?65-Sinaiticus-authentic-antiquity-or-modern
Also on forums, such as various Facebook and Yahoogroups forums, and the Bible Criticism and History Forum.
Note, though those for authenticity attempt to squash discussion quickly on many venues (e.g. Evangelical Textual Criticism, three textual criticism forums on Facebook .. non-textual-criticism forums have been far better.)
============================
And it is the textual critics who rule the Sinaiticus date, not palaeographic scholars who look at all the evidences. The early date was aggressively pushed by .. Tischendorf. .. and never re-examined. Independent analysis and consideration is basically non-existent. Remember, real palaeography includes provenance, history, ms. condition and much more. As handwriting styles can always be replicated 100 or 1500 years later.
Note, copying earlier handwriting is especially a theme of Bible and religious writings. And, looking at a manuscript, markings that don't fit the production date can simply be pegged, ad hoc, as later: "8th century"... "11th century" ... "15th century" corrections, additions and notations without any real evidences or confirmation.
Remember, the SART team literature online is not just David, it is David, Rohan Meyer, and myself, with help from Mark Michie, as the core. Each individual handles different elements.
Others have helped, some directly, others simply by their own auxiliary studies.. One gentleman in the USA helped with the important smoothed out and tampered 2011 Hendrickson & British Library Sinaiticus facsimile book, and other materials. One gentleman is helping with the Zosima Bible issues. One scholar in Austria has helped with Simonides material including the 1859 biography and the 2014 Simonides conference that was held in Vienna, and helping to pin down the factual history around Simonides. A gentleman in Australia looked up the Simonides archive material in Melbourne, while a Professor working with those materials is aware of the "deeply entrenched scholarship" that inhibits Sinaiticus dating inquiry among the textual scholars. One classical language professor in the USA pointed out, on a simple read, his own sense that the Greek of Hermas seemed unusual for a 4th century writing and expressed interest in the Donaldson articles. Chris Pinto received assistance in Greece in looking up the Barnabas and Star of the East materials. We had assistance in Russia (friends and professional) in translating for the first time into English the incredible Uspenky material. This was first seen in translation from the Slavonic script by the efforts of a Ukrainian scholar. (This was core material that was not available to the recent books of Parker and Jongkind, or the history as related by the CSP.) And one gentleman in Germany wrote about Sinaiticus being non-authentic 15 years ago, noting the Morozov science and other Tischendorf-related elements.
============================
THE AUTHENTICITY POSITION
Many of the arguments, when addressed, are simply given glib handwave dismissals. Like James Snapp saying that he the professional photographers must not have understood the lighting!
(by contrast, The British Library has fully acknowledged the colour anomaly, giving their own little attempted conjectural possible explanations, which were similarly non-functinoal.)
The facts on the ground are very difficult for authenticity defenders. e.g. Tommy Wasserman will simply ignore these incredible evidences about the ms. colour and condition.
==============
EXAMPLE: JAMES SNAPP AND THE COLOUR DISPARITY BETWEEN 1844 LEIPZIG AND 1859 BRITISH LIBRARY
Howrver, look at the try of James Snapp about the pristine white parchment in Leipzig.
Virtually every area, you run into this type of ignorance. In order to salvage some small piece of Tischendorf veracity and credibility (knowing the bogus claim of saving leaves from fire) James would claim that Tischendorf had permission from the monks to take the leaves in 1844 (this was 86 pages, James has it wrong as 172). Once you know about his correspondence, his pronensity for theft, the Uspensky account and the fact that what he took included five full quires you can know for a fact that Tischendorf just stole those leaves. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Tischendorf had the permission claimed by James Snapp.
Later, James Snapp wrote three blog posts on Sinaiticus authenticity, and did not touch on any of the evidences above, that show that it was produced in the 1800s. James tries to hide the real issues from the readers. Yet, he is, ironically, the best of the authenticity defenders!
==============
A SHORT BOOK IS NOT DESIGNED TO HANDLE EVERY ISSUE!
Similarly, most of the detail defense (e.g. James Snapp) would be a waste of time in a published book as they are a "multiplication of nothings". So they are "Coloring the Truth" as David put it in one vlog.
==============
So what specifically do you think is missing in our approach?
What has the SART team not addressed?
Where are the real authenticity defense attempts that will look at 1-9 above?
And to what was Mark McDonnel referring?
==============
If you would like a booklet that condenses the arguments, pro and con, sometime in the future, it would have to be about a 20-page paper at least. Not everything can be done overnight, and, first-things-first:
David, starting with the first book, is successfully and properly laying out many of the fundamental arguments that Sinaiticus is not 4th century, but is a recent creation. And he is doing so in a way that can be read and understood by the Christian believer on the street, and anyone with some common sense reading and thinking abilities.
David includes more background historical material, and supporting research, than anyone, about the Benedict - Simonides - Kallinikos - Athos milieu that created the ms. David also is the first writer since the 1800s to properly bring forth the Donaldson linguistic arguments that were never covered. And thus David looks closely in the book (e.g. the Maximo example) in ways that have never been done, not even online. Similarly with the 2427 and Sinaiticus "let's learn from experience" coverage.
David has a full and solid mastery of the fundamental colour and condition anomalies, and the historical background that are core to understanding the creation of Codex Simonieidos.
His is the first book that has done the presentation accurately. And it is a starting point for researchers.
In contrast .. the modern textual crew are .. silent. We see a couple of tepid reactive attempts, a mask over the eyes and one multiplication of nothings.
======================
David W. Daniel's book:
Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?
where to read and purchase Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php/threads/a.500/post-996
the other side has not presented arguments that are germane to the fundamentals:
(How should David present and rebut that which does not exist?)
Pure Bible
Steven Avery - Feb 14, 2018
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/1603903833034833/
Plus, one book can not cover everything. I have made it a point to address every serious authenticity defender argument attempt. And my posts are online and on:
PureBibleForum
Sinaiticus - authentic antiquity or modern?
http://www.purebibleforum.com/forumdisplay.php?65-Sinaiticus-authentic-antiquity-or-modern
Also on forums, such as various Facebook and Yahoogroups forums, and the Bible Criticism and History Forum.
Note, though those for authenticity attempt to squash discussion quickly on many venues (e.g. Evangelical Textual Criticism, three textual criticism forums on Facebook .. non-textual-criticism forums have been far better.)
============================
And it is the textual critics who rule the Sinaiticus date, not palaeographic scholars who look at all the evidences. The early date was aggressively pushed by .. Tischendorf. .. and never re-examined. Independent analysis and consideration is basically non-existent. Remember, real palaeography includes provenance, history, ms. condition and much more. As handwriting styles can always be replicated 100 or 1500 years later.
Note, copying earlier handwriting is especially a theme of Bible and religious writings. And, looking at a manuscript, markings that don't fit the production date can simply be pegged, ad hoc, as later: "8th century"... "11th century" ... "15th century" corrections, additions and notations without any real evidences or confirmation.
Remember, the SART team literature online is not just David, it is David, Rohan Meyer, and myself, with help from Mark Michie, as the core. Each individual handles different elements.
Those are the core participants, although the pioneer journalism of Chris Pinto also gets strong recognition.
Others have helped, some directly, others simply by their own auxiliary studies.. One gentleman in the USA helped with the important smoothed out and tampered 2011 Hendrickson & British Library Sinaiticus facsimile book, and other materials. One gentleman is helping with the Zosima Bible issues. One scholar in Austria has helped with Simonides material including the 1859 biography and the 2014 Simonides conference that was held in Vienna, and helping to pin down the factual history around Simonides. A gentleman in Australia looked up the Simonides archive material in Melbourne, while a Professor working with those materials is aware of the "deeply entrenched scholarship" that inhibits Sinaiticus dating inquiry among the textual scholars. One classical language professor in the USA pointed out, on a simple read, his own sense that the Greek of Hermas seemed unusual for a 4th century writing and expressed interest in the Donaldson articles. Chris Pinto received assistance in Greece in looking up the Barnabas and Star of the East materials. We had assistance in Russia (friends and professional) in translating for the first time into English the incredible Uspenky material. This was first seen in translation from the Slavonic script by the efforts of a Ukrainian scholar. (This was core material that was not available to the recent books of Parker and Jongkind, or the history as related by the CSP.) And one gentleman in Germany wrote about Sinaiticus being non-authentic 15 years ago, noting the Morozov science and other Tischendorf-related elements.
============================
THE AUTHENTICITY POSITION
Many of the arguments, when addressed, are simply given glib handwave dismissals. Like James Snapp saying that he the professional photographers must not have understood the lighting!
(by contrast, The British Library has fully acknowledged the colour anomaly, giving their own little attempted conjectural possible explanations, which were similarly non-functinoal.) The facts on the ground are very difficult for authenticity defenders. e.g. Tommy Wasserman will simply ignore these incredible evidences about the ms. colour and condition.
==============
EXAMPLE: JAMES SNAPP AND THE COLOUR DISPARITY BETWEEN 1844 LEIPZIG AND 1859 BRITISH LIBRARY
Howrver, look at the try of James Snapp about the pristine white parchment in Leipzig.
James Snapp was showing incredible ignorance, again and again, about the professional photography of the Codex Sinaiticus Project. This photography was done standardized by a special committee of experts, and the photographers included colour bars with their pictures.
Virtually every area, you run into this type of ignorance. In order to salvage some small piece of Tischendorf veracity and credibility (knowing the bogus claim of saving leaves from fire) James would claim that Tischendorf had permission from the monks to take the leaves in 1844 (this was 86 pages, James has it wrong as 172). Once you know about his correspondence, his pronensity for theft, the Uspensky account and the fact that what he took included five full quires you can know for a fact that Tischendorf just stole those leaves. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Tischendorf had the permission claimed by James Snapp.
Later, James Snapp wrote three blog posts on Sinaiticus authenticity, and did not touch on any of the evidences above, that show that it was produced in the 1800s. James tries to hide the real issues from the readers. Yet, he is, ironically, the best of the authenticity defenders!
==============
A SHORT BOOK IS NOT DESIGNED TO HANDLE EVERY ISSUE!
Similarly, most of the detail defense (e.g. James Snapp) would be a waste of time in a published book as they are a "multiplication of nothings". So they are "Coloring the Truth" as David put it in one vlog.
==============
So what specifically do you think is missing in our approach?
What has the SART team not addressed?
Where are the real authenticity defense attempts that will look at 1-9 above?
And to what was Mark McDonnel referring?
==============
If you would like a booklet that condenses the arguments, pro and con, sometime in the future, it would have to be about a 20-page paper at least. Not everything can be done overnight, and, first-things-first:
David, starting with the first book, is successfully and properly laying out many of the fundamental arguments that Sinaiticus is not 4th century, but is a recent creation. And he is doing so in a way that can be read and understood by the Christian believer on the street, and anyone with some common sense reading and thinking abilities.
David includes more background historical material, and supporting research, than anyone, about the Benedict - Simonides - Kallinikos - Athos milieu that created the ms. David also is the first writer since the 1800s to properly bring forth the Donaldson linguistic arguments that were never covered. And thus David looks closely in the book (e.g. the Maximo example) in ways that have never been done, not even online. Similarly with the 2427 and Sinaiticus "let's learn from experience" coverage.
David has a full and solid mastery of the fundamental colour and condition anomalies, and the historical background that are core to understanding the creation of Codex Simonieidos.
His is the first book that has done the presentation accurately. And it is a starting point for researchers.
In contrast .. the modern textual crew are .. silent. We see a couple of tepid reactive attempts, a mask over the eyes and one multiplication of nothings.
======================
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