Johann Georg Kohl, Thomas Phillips and Simonides - Alan Munby extracts

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Johann Georg Kohl (1808-1878)
en.wikipedia.org

Johann Georg Kohl - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Manuscripts Club: The People Behind a Thousand Years of Medieval Manuscripts (2023)
Kohl - 4 times
https://books.google.com/books?id=5n5dEAAAQBAJ

https://books.google.com/books?id=DIZdEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA344
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TNC
https://lithub.com/is-that-a-first-...-great-manuscript-forgers/#comment-6476542909
Your comment: "Simonides was now returning to Middle Hill on 11 August 1854. By chance, we have a quite detailed record of the encounter because another visitor at that same time was the German map historian Johann Georg Kohl (1808–78), who was studying items in Phillipps’s collection for his own researches and described the event in his volumes of reminiscences, published in Hanover in 1868..." (check footnotes)
I've hunted for his "Reminisces" published in Hanover in 1868, and can't find it anywhere.
Can you help with some more information on where I might be able to find this online please?
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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Collecting: An Unruly Passion: Psychological Perspectives [Course Book ed.] (1994)
WERNER MUENSTERBERGER
https://dokumen.pub/collecting-an-u...pectives-course-booknbsped-9781400863471.html


This is demonstrated by his involvement with an adventurous forger, a Greek named Constantine Simonides. Simonides had approached the British Museum and the Bodleian Library at Oxford and offered them a number of scrolls and a variety of ancient Greek manuscripts. On close inspection, they were recognized to be ingenious fakes. When Phillipps heard about him, he extended an invitation to Simonides to visit Middle Hill. The Greek was an expert character reader, and, like many dealers, knew how to whet a client's appetite. He told Phillipps stories about his treasure trove, and how he had obtained the manuscripts in the Middle East and on Mount Athos. He soon provided the collector with a detailed description of a previously unknown manuscript by Thucydides. Phillipps was mesmerized by the man's stories, as devoted collectors are apt to be. He immediately decided to purchase some of the manuscripts, and jotted down: "I am to have his Pythagoras, his Phocylides & 3 Diatagmata Autokrator for a certain sum [December 1853]." While several experts had warned
97
him about Simonides, he preferred to risk buying forgeries than to let such "jewels" get into someone else's hands. Dr. Johann Georg Kohl, a German scholar, was visiting Middle Hill at this time. Kohl tells us that Phillipps happened to have a German newspaper clipping on Simonides, and asked him to translate the article. Even though it described the Greek as an expert forger, nothing could prevent Sir Thomas from buying twenty-two manuscripts of very questionable authenticity.83

83. Johann Georg Kohl, Vom Markt und aus der Zelle (Hannover, 1868).
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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1922 - p. 242
- The Greek , which Kohl mentions , may have been Konstan-tin Simonides .


Gustav Adolf Erich Bogeng

Die anmerkungen
https://books.google.com/books?id=awBKau4JbSEC&pg=PA242

“Die” großen Bibliophilen: Geschichte der Büchersammler und ihrer Sammlungen. “Die” Anmerkungen. 3
books.google.com

“Die” großen Bibliophilen

books.google.com

Is it actually in p. 481 - other volume? see below​

Volume One looks good​

https://books.google.com/books?id=e_kwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP7​

p. 481-490
https://books.google.com/books?id=e_kwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA481

Other editions 1915-1922
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q="anderer als Sir Thomas Phillipps gewesen sein kann"
1915
books.google.com

Zeitschrift für Bücherfreunde

books.google.com

Does it give pages from the German of Kohl?

=======================
What we want is the Kohl page. (Does Kohl have more than one volume?

Page n261
487. [S. 479] J. G. Kohl, Vom Markt und aus der Zelle. II. Hannover 1868. 45 — Die Middle HUI Press Drucke verzeichnet Lowndes Bibliographers Manual S. 185—188, Appendix S. 225—237. —Der Grieche, den Kohl erwähnt, dürfte Konstantin Simonides gewesen sein.—Simonides u. sein Prozeß. Berlin: 1856. —Daß die großen öffentlichen Sammlungen ihre Bestände an Handschriften und Urkunden teils durch freihändigen Ankauf, teils durch Erwerbungen bei den Auktionen der Bibliotheca Phililppica bereicherten, erweisen ihre darüber bekannt gemachten Berichte. Auf dem Wege über die Bibliotheca Phillippica fanden auch viele dem Besitze Libri's entstammenden Dokumente und Manuscripte in ihre Heimat zurück. Sir Thomas Phillipps soll rund £ 100000 für seine Bibliothek ausgegeben haben [The Connoisseur. XXVII S. 287] Die Übersicht ihrer Versteigerungen, nach einer von W. Roberts 1910 in der „National Review'* gemachten und hier weitergeführten Aufstellung^ zeigt natürlich nur ihren teilweisen Erlös an. I. 1886. 3./10. August. Druckwerke 3346 Nummern £ 2200 15s; II. 1889. 22./24. Januar. Druckwerke 1413 Nrn. £ 637 17 s. III. 1891. 15./16. Juli. Briefe und Handschriften. 542 Nrn. £ 89111 s 6 d. IV. 1891. 7./8. Dezember. Briefe, 703 Nrn. £ 371 1 s 6 d; V. 1892. 4./6. Juli, Briefe, 601 Nrn. £ 720 1 s 6 d; VI. 1893, 19./22. Juni, Handschriften, 915 Nrn. £ 2474 4 s.; VII. 1895, 21./26. März Handschriften 1285 Nrn. £ 8468 2 s; VIII. 1896. 10./17. Juni. Handschriften. 1441 Nrn. £ 6998 7 s. IX. 1897. 17./20. Mai. Handschriften 826 Nrn. £ 4194 14 s 6 d.; X. 1898. 6./11. Juni Handschriften. 1168 Nrn. £ 5915 18 s; XI. 1899. 5./10. Juni. Handschriften. 1258 Nrn. £ 3784 19 s 6 d; XII. 1903 27. April/2. Mai Handschriften. 1355 Nrn. £4612 4 s; XIII. 1908 15./18. Juni. Handschriften. 835 Nrn. £ 3796 19 s; XIV. 1910 6./9. Juni. Handschriften. 908 Nrn. £5995 11 8 6 d; XV. 1911. 24./28. April. Handschriften. £879515s6d [und noch weitere Versteigerungen].
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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Portrait of an obsession; the life of Sir Thomas Phillipps, the world's greatest book collector (1967)
Alan Noel Latimer Munby
p. 210-211
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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1 Kohl's account of Phillipps is quoted in G. A. E. Bogeng, Die grosseti Bibliophilat (Leipzig, 1922), I, pp. 481-90.

This might give pages in Kohl?
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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CARM

Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides timeline

“Travels in the East by a Pilgrim.” By Constantin von Tischendorf Published: London : Longman, Brown, Green, and Longmans, 1847. [English] Translation of: "Reise in den Orient." [Vol. 1] Page 29-30 “Upon reaching the Greek monastery of the Sinaïtes at Cairo [i.e. Juvania Metochion], the whole of...
forums.carm.org

“Is That a First Edition of The Iliad?” Meet One of History’s Great Manuscript Forgers
On Constantine Simonides, a Mysterious Stranger in the Cotswolds...
https://lithub.com/is-that-a-first-...-great-manuscript-forgers/#comment-6476542909

COMMENTS - 2024

TNC
Dear Christopher.
Your comment: "Simonides was now returning to Middle Hill on 11 August 1854. By chance, we have a quite detailed record of the encounter because another visitor at that same time was the German map historian Johann Georg Kohl (1808–78), who was studying items in Phillipps’s collection for his own researches and described the event in his volumes of reminiscences, published in Hanover in 1868..."
I've hunted for his "Reminisces" published in Hanover in 1868, and can't find it anywhere.
Can you help with some more information on where I might be able to find this online please?
Click to expand...

The Kohl book is multi-volume.

Vom Markt und aus der Zelle: populäre Vorträge und vermischte kleine Schriften (1868)
From the Market and from the Cell: Popular Lectures and Miscellaneous Short Writings (Google translate)

Vol 1
https://books.google.de/books?id=EHU5AAAAcAAJ

Vol 2
https://books.google.de/books?id=QXE4TH50FDAC

It seems the scholars today, like Christopher Hamel, start with:

Portrait of an obsession; the life of Sir Thomas Phillipps, the world's greatest book collector (1967)
Alan Noel Latimer Munby
https://archive.org/details/portraitofobsess0000munb/page/210/mode/2up
p. 210-211



and he points back to

Die grossen bibliophilen; geschichte der bu¨chersammler und ihrer sammlungen
Gustav Adolf Erich Bogeng (1922)
https://books.google.com/books?id=e_kwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA481
p. 481-490

and he uses or quotes:

Kohl (1868) - above

And I have confirmed the Bogeng section, but I not really looked at the two volumes of Kohl.
 
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