Jodicus Coccius - Victor of Vita - Council of Carthage 1500s editions.

[Steven Avery]

Posted on Roger Pearse
https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog...vita-quote-from-the-three-heavenly-witnesses/

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/2963490057076197/?comment_id=2972492582842611

Wonderful research, Roger.

This book below by Albert Schönfelder:

De Victore Vitensi episcopo (1901)
Albert Schönfelder (1866-1940)
https://books.google.com/books?id=RasjBkmikDMC&pg=PA1

looks to have more information about the 1500s editions, referencing 1518, and the editio princeps.of:

Jehan Petit,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehan_Petit

who publshed in Paris. And it mentions various editions in the 1530s-1540s.

Also Richard Simon references a Jean Quinten, Basel edition:
https://books.google.com/books?id=2RYzAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA179

Jean Quintin edition - 1541, open to the verse reference
https://books.google.com/books?id=0ZxTAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA26
Also 1541
https://books.google.com/books?id=aUlPAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA653

This historical heavenly witnesses usage seems to have been missed, possibly unseen, or neglected, by Erasmus Beatus Rhenanus, referenced above, was a friend of Erasmus.

We have the Bellarmine 1870 edition, originally written c. 1586, which gives this as evidence for heavenly witnesses authenticity:
https://books.google.com/books?id=vzhEuiwwjkUC&pg=PA104

Jodicus Coccius has a fine apologetic in 1599
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA725
PRDL mixes together two Jodicus Coccius, this one is:
https://www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/C/coccius-jodocus-(1).html
https://books.google.com/books?id=vPC8m0_cz5wC&pg=PA962

Jodicus Coccius apologetic utilizes Eugenius in 1599 edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA725

References increase in the 1600s, and the Confession of Faith became an integral part of the discussion, through each century and today.

And there is even an interesting and helpful 2013 thread on the contra forum BVDB, Waterrock is James Snapp, who was trying to study and learn. The contras were trying to downplay and dismiss the usage at Carthage.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bib...he-african-bishops-in-carthage-t5547-s20.html
Especially starting on post #41, James goes into the authenticity and significance:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bib...he-african-bishops-in-carthage-t5547-s40.html

=====

And Roger when you refer to "the interpolated passage" this goes against the acceptance of the verse by the many hundred of orthodox and 'Arians' (or homoians) from a wide Meditteranean region. So, your term is anachronistic. And dependent on the very dubious position of the modern textual critics. Let the history speak unfettered!

Thanks, Roger!

Abraham Calov refers to the Coccius study on p. 725-726

Biblia Novi Testamenti Illustrata (1719)
Abraham Calov
https://books.google.com/books?id=i_hDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA1663

 

[Steven Avery]

Facebook - Pure Bible
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/2963490057076197/?comment_id=3631728710252325

Good pic with text
Posted by Michael George in sept. 2018

Facebook Byzantine Text Theory
Council of Carthage
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1915432878522851&set=p.1915432878522851&type=3&theater

....I mean with dozens (and then dozens more) of witnesses mentioning 'these three" which is unique to the JC, there has got to be a breaking point, where we need to be honest with ourselves and admit all these Patriarch's did mention I John 5:7.

 

[Steven Avery]

TWOGIG

• [Burgess] Calovius, in his Biblia Illustrata [1719], quotes another work of Cyril (his treatise de recta in Christum fide) for the seventh verse. Calovius speaks of it without reference. But, Peltanus (Acta Tertiae Gen. Synod. 1576) in his version of Cyril's treatise, gives the Latin of the 7th verse. [Also: Jodocus Coccius in Thesaurus Catholicus, 1599]
(Burgess,”Note to P. XXVIII”in A Vindication of 1 John, V. 7. from the Objections of M. Griesbach, 1823, 2nd edition, p. XL)

Jodocus Coccius, S.J. (1581-1622)
• Coccius, Jodocus a canon of Julich, who was born of Lutheran parentage, and died about 1618, is the author of Thesaurus Catholicus (Cologne, 1599, fol.; 1619, 2 volumes). See Hartzheim, Bibl. Colon. p. 210; Rass, Convertiten, 8:500; Streber, in Wetzer u, Welte's Kirchen-Lexikon, s.v. (B.P.)
<www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/C/coccius-jodocus-(1).html>

• [Backus] A Canon of Juliers, Jodocus Coccius, who converted [to Roman Church] from Lutheranism on discovering the continuity and antiquity of the Catholic faith, spent twenty-four years gathering together ”the words of the Church Doctors which have flourished in continuous succession from the beginning of the Church until today and which have preserved and propagated the Catholic Doctrine by their perfect unanimity.”(n. 46. Coccius died before the dedication of his ”Thesaurus” drawn up by Laruent Trivius, dated 1599.)
(Backus,”The Fathers in 17th Century Roman Catholic Theology”in The Reception of the Church Fathers in the West, 1997, p. 962)

HIT:
● [Coccius] These words in 1 John 5: There are three who give testimony in heaven, Father, Word and Holy Spirit, and these three are one, may not be expunged, for this canonical Scripture is powerfully confirmed by Ecclesiastical dogma. Greek fathers assert it. Cyril of Alexandria (430 AD). De recta in Deum Fide ad Reginas: ”From the first epistle of John: For there are three who give testimony in heaven, Father, Word and Holy Spirit, and these three are one.”
(Coccius, Thesaurus Catholicus; Translated by Jeroen Beekhuizen, correspondence, June 2020)

○ Latin: I. Ioannis 5 Verba Illa: Tres Sunt Qui Testimonium Dant in Caelo, Pater, Verbum, Et Spiritus Sanctus, et Hi tres unum sunt, non expungenda esse: sed ut canonicam scripturam valere ad ecclesiastica dogmata confirmanda. Asserunt Patres Graeci. Cyrillus Alexandrinus (430 AD). De recta in Deum fide ad Reginas : Ex prima epistola Ioannis: Quoniam tres sunt qui testimonium dant in caelo, Pater, Verbum, & Spiritus sanctus, & hi tres unum sunt.
(Coccius, Thesaurus Catholicus, 1599, p. 725)

Coccius, Jodocus. Thesaurus catholicus in quo controversiae fidei ... SS. Scripturarum, conciliorum et SS. ... Patrum testimoniis ... explicantur. [Lieu de publication non identifié]: [éditeur non identifié], 1599

 

[Steven Avery]

12 Hits
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA38#v=onepage&q="pater verbum"&f=false

Verse p. 38
Index - also p. 11
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA2
Clemens Alexandrinus (not the verse)
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA39
verse
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA64
Zacharias Michylenaus (not the verse)
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA43

https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA1115

Innocent III
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA92
https://purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/fourth-lateran-council-of-ad-1215.2168/

Guido Carmelita - Guido Terrena (PBF page)
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA93
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Terrena

Negay Lutheras ?
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA1018

Many

Oecumenius
Augustine
Erasmus
Martin Luther
Sixtus Senesis (Senensis)
Anabaptist
Bugenhagen
John Summerus contra Petrum Carolium

Athanasius
Cyril of Alexandria
Higinus
Cyprian
Idacius Clarus
Eugenius Carthage
Fulgentius
John Secundus - Epistola ad Valerium - related to Hyginus? Grantley says caro flesh

Ambrosius Anbertus

Rudulphus Ardens

Rupertus Tuitiensis

Hugo Victorinus - have not found the Travis or Coccius hits

Hugo Victorinus - (Hugh of Saint-Victor)

Hugo Victorinus (c. 1096 – 1141) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_of_Saint_Victor Medieval Science, Technology, and Medicine: An Encyclopedia (2005) http://books.google.com/books?id=SaJlbWK_-FcC&pg=PA229 Mentioned by Bengel / Calov in Burgess...

www.purebibleforum.com

Alexander Tertius - Pope Alexander III - Roland Sienna
Epistola ad Soldanum

Alexander III - Instructio fidei catholicae ad soldanum

Biblia Novi Testamenti Illustrata Abraham Calov https://books.google.com/books?id=i_hDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA1664 Christian-Muslim Relations 600 - 1500 (2022) John Tolan https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/browse/christian-muslim-relations-i/alphaRange/Ih%20-%20In/I Instruction in the Catholic faith...

www.purebibleforum.com

Innocent III - Innocencius Tertius

Guido Carmelita - Guido Terrena
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Terrena

Guido Terrena (Carmelita)

Guido Terrena - (1270-1342) - Guido Terreni and Guy de Perpignan, Carmelita - Guido Terra - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Terrena Guido Terrena (c.1270 in Perpignan – 1342), also known as Guido Terreni and Guy de Perpignan, was a Catalan Carmelite canon lawyer and scholastic...

www.purebibleforum.com

Bernadinus Senensis

Bernardino of Siena

Bernardino of Sienna (1380-1444) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena Bernard Bernardine - Bernadinus Bernardino of Siena (also known in English as Bernardine; 8 September 1380 – 20 May 1444) was an Italian priest and Franciscan missionary. He was a systematizer of Scholastic...

www.purebibleforum.com

Laurentius Instinianus

Lawrence Justinian - Laurentius Instinianus

Lawrence Justinian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Justinian Lawrence Justinian (Italian: Lorenzo Giustiniani, 1 July 1381 – 8 January 1456) was a Venetian Catholic priest and bishop who became the first Patriarch of Venice. He is venerated as a saint by the Catholic Church. Jodicus...

www.purebibleforum.com

John de Turrecremata
Juan de Torquemada
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/juan-de-torquemada.2099/

https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA725
https://books.google.com/books?id=f9t5yN0RfVIC&pg=PA726

p. 715

p. 716

 

[Steven Avery]

Roger Pearse page - my response is in the OP

Does Victor of Vita quote from the Three Heavenly Witnesses?

Posted on September 29, 2018 by Roger Pearse

Victor of Vita lived in Roman Africa after its conquest by the Vandals. The Vandals were Arians, and their kings persecuted the Catholic clergy. In 484 Victor wrote an account of the persecutions, which has come down to us in a number of manuscripts. These I list from C. Halms 1878 edition in the Monumenta Germanica Historiae, series: Auctores Antiq., vol. 3.1. Online here. There is also the CSEL 7 edition by Petschenig (1881).​

• A = Laon, Codex Laudunensis 113 (9th c.) Contains only book 2, and a list of Catholic bishops at the synod of 484, which alone is preserved in this copy. Another used by an early editor no longer seems to exist.
• B = Bamberg, Codex Bambergensis signatus E, 3, 4. (9th c.)
• C = Upper Austria, Codex monasterii Cremifanensis, sign. 36 (12th c.)
• L = Berlin, Codex Berolinensis lat. quart. 1. (12th c.)
• M = Munich, Codex Monacensis 2545 (previously cod. Alderspacensis) (12th c.)
• P = Paris latinus 2015 (once Colbertinus 905)(10th c.)
• R = Brussels, Codex Bruxellensis 1794. (10th c.)
• V = Vienna, Codex Vindobonensis 583 (previously “Univ. 239”)(10th c.)
• W = Vienna, Codex Vindobonensis 408 (formerly Admontensis from the abbey of Admont) (11th c.). Contains some crude interpolations. Derived from V.
• a = Codex Abrincensis 162 (12th c.) Both mutilated and interpolated.
• b = Berne, Codex Bernensis 48. (Once Floriacensis)(11th c.) Similar to R but inferior.
• s = Admont, Codex Admontensis 739 (12th c.). Derived from V.

Analysis of the readings means that the manuscripts fall into two families, both derived from O, the original now manuscript (manuscripts in Greek letters are lost ancestor manuscripts of one family or another). The tree of which manuscript was copied from what (the stemma) looks like this:​

The editio princeps, the first edition is actually “Parisiis ab Iano Parvo (=Jehan Petit) Ludovico XII. regnante impressa”. This undated edition was unknown to editors who generally thought that this was the edition of Beatus Rhenanus at Basle in 1535.
There is a modern English translation in the Liverpool University Press series: Victor of Vita: History of the Vandal Persecution, tr. John Moorhead, Liverpool (1992); series: Translated Texts for Historians 10.
The passage that refers to the Comma Johanneum, the interpolated passage in 1 John 5:7 which discusses the Trinity, is in book 2, chapter 11 (section 82; p.34 of the edition). Halms’ edition (which Moorhead translated) reads:​

82. Vnde nullus ambiguitatis relinquitur locus, quin clareat spiritum sanctum et deum esse et suae voluntatis auctorem, qui cuncta operari et secundum propriae voluntatis arbitrium divinae dispensationis dona largiri apertissime demonstratur, quia ubi voluntaria gratiarum distributio praedicatur, non potest videri condicio servitutis: in creatura enim servitus intellegenda est, in trinitate vero dominatio ac libertas. Et ut adhuc luce clarius unius divinitatis esse cum patre et filio spiritum sanctum doceamus, Iohannis evangelistae testimonio conprobatur. Ait namque: tres sunt qui testimonium perhibent in caelo, pater, verbum et spiritus sanctus, et hi tres unum sunt. Numquid ait: tres in differenti aequalitate seiuneti aut quibuslibet diversitatum gradibus longo separationis intervallo divisi? sed, tres, inquit, unum sunt.​

The CSEL text is the same, and the apparatus contains only trivial variants.
This is rendered by Moorhead (p.56):​

82 And so, no occasion for uncertainty is left. It is clear that the Holy Spirit is also God and the author of his own will, he who is most clearly shown to be at work in all things and to bestow the gifts of the divine dispensation according to the judgment of his own will, because where it is proclaimed that he distributes graces where he wills, servile condition cannot exist, for servitude is to be understood in what is created, but power and freedom in the Trinity. And so that we may teach the Holy Spirit to be of one divinity with the Father and the Son still more clearly than the light, here is proof from the testimony of John the evangelist. For he says: ‘There are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.’ Surely he does he not say ‘three separated by a difference in quality’ or ‘divided by grades which differentiate, so that there is a great distance between them?’ No, he says that the ‘three are one.’​

That’s that, pretty much; this 5th century Latin text definitely mentions the Three Heavenly Witnesses as part of the text of 1 John.
Moorhead adds a comment on the text of scripture used by Victor (p.xix ff.):​

To avoid a multiplication of footnotes I have supplied references to biblical quotations and allusions in parentheses, without troubling to register minor ways, whether due to the text which Victor or the authors of the Book of the catholic faith were familiar with, faulty memory, or some other cause, in which they differ from modern printed versions of the Bible. The chapter and verse numbers of the psalms are those of the Vulgate, but the names of books of the Bible are those by which they are generally known in English. Where ‘Vulg’ is added, the text Victor cites is similar to the Vulgate and differs significantly from the modem translations readers may have at their disposal; where ‘cf’ is added, Victor’s text is significantly different from both the Vulgate and modem versions.[23]​

The footnote:​

23. It must be said that some of the variants which occur in the Book of the catholic faith constitute amendments in a Trinitarian direction.​

It is perhaps inevitable in the circumstances, if undesirable, that the most useful reading was preferred.​