Isaiah 7:14 (AV)
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,
and shall call his name Immanuel.
When I saw the Sovereign Grace Blog, I realized that PBF needed a page on this topic.
Added Jan, 2025
Isaiah 9:6 (AV)
For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller,
The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
Regarding the wonderful prophecy of this topic, there is an interesting discussion of mine, it with the Rabbi
| 16 de fev. de 2025, 23:31 |
ב"ה
Hi Oseas,
While we both agree that the time of the bringing to an end of sin etc. is the messianic age,
that does not mean that I agree that this time would begin immediately at the end of the 490 years (seven weeks),
nor that it would be the Messiah who would bring an end to sin.
You did not mention Jesus by name,
but you did reference a virgin birth, something not found in the Tanakh. This idea is proposed by those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I don’t know of others who make such a claim.
There is no evidence that Isaiah 53 is referring to the Messiah from within the Tanakh. It does refer to events that will occur in the messianic age, foretelling the vindication of those who remain faithful to G-d despite all the suffering.
However, “the” Messiah is not spoken of as being cut off in Daniel 12. “Mashiah” in the Tanakh is never used referring specifically to the ultimate Redeemer. It means a person appointed to greatness, whether as High Priest, king, or prophet. In this case it refers to the king of Israel who will be killed during the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.
The chronology you sent did not make clear how you arrived at the numbers you did. Saying that G-d’s day is 1,000 years does not tell us where in the timeline we are. The main points of divergence between the Jewish traditional dating and other methods of calculating are that we count only 210 years during which the Israelites sojourned in Egypt, although the Torah says 430 years. Biblical commentators of all kinds, including Josephus and the NT, agree that Israel could not have been in Egypt for the full 430 years. The other difference is that, according to our counting, the Persian empire lasted much less than normally understood, a difference of something like 160 years. This is based in part on figuring the timeline of Daniel, which does not leave room for the Second Temple to have stood for as long as is conventionally accepted (c. 660 years).
Your assumption that the year 0 coincides with the Biblical year 4000 is not explained in what you wrote, as far as I can tell.
I disagree with your differentiation of “G-d’s word” and “man’s word.” Your chronology is man’s word, that man being you. It is your understanding (an idiosyncratic one, at that), not “revealed.” The Sages of Israel were finely attuned to the nuances of the Tanakh’s text, and noticed where discrepancies needed to be reconciled. Their interpretations were not based on “storytelling” or wishful thinking, but on pulling together the various passages to give a full picture.
All the best,
Rabbi Shmary Brownstein
Chabad.org - Rabbis That Care
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
Here's my response about email above of the Rabbi Shmary Brownstain at February 20, 2025 , 11:16
Quoted Rabbi :>>> While we both agree that the time of the bringing to an end of sin etc. is the messianic age,
that does not mean that I agree that this time would begin immediately at the end of the 490 years (seven weeks), nor that it would be the Messiah who would bring an end to sin.<<<
Ok, Rabbi, so as you said, you believe not "messianic age would begin at the end of the 490 years (seven weeks)", I am astonished by your belief, it because the revelation of 70 weeks of years was given by God through the archangel Gabriel. O, Let there be light.
It was God Who also decreed the end of sin through the Messiah after literal 69 weeks, for AFTER the sixty-two weeks, [the] Anointed One would be cut off,(how?), and he would be no more, this terrible scenario is written in Daniel 9:26. This is what God says and decreed by His Word, the Tanach, I believe in His Word, I literally believe in God and His Word.
Quoted Rabbi :->>> You did not mention Jesus by name, but you did reference a virgin birth, something not found in the Tanakh. This idea is proposed by those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
<<<
I did reference to a young woman
(Yeshayahu 7:14), Scripture does not say the young woman was married,
if she was married it would make no sense Scripture says her pregnancy was a sign, now, if she was married it was natural to have a child, but if she was not married and was pregnant with a child, that would be a great sign indeed(for example, something like the sun going back ten steps on the Sundial of Ahaz-Yeshayahu 38:8 combined with Melachim II(2Kings) 20:8-11), besides the NAME of the child was/is Immanuel, i.e. God with us.
(Immanuel, God with us: -> His birth was/is not of sin, His birth really was/is a God's sign, He is not a carnal son, His birth is not of a demonic sin, He was not born of sin).
Yeshayahu 7:14:-> Therefore, the Lord,
of His OWN,
shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a SON, and she shall call His name Immanuel.--> a masculine personal NAME in Hebrew meaning "God with us," or "God is with us.".
Besides the reference in Yeshayahu 7:14, it is also found in Yeshayahu 8:8, take a look.
Yeshayahu 9:6 reveals:-> For a child has been born to us, a SON given to us, and the authority is upon His shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called His name, "the prince of peace."
Again, just curious: If is not JESUS, what another name could be pointed as the Anointed One that would be cut off, and he would be no more, in LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Daniel 9:26, and Yeshayahu 53:1-12, Michah 5:1-3 and Zechariah 13:6?
By the way, MICHAH (Micah) prophesied even the place of Immanuel's birth:->
Michah(Micah) 5:1-3:->1 And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.
2 Therefore, He shall deliver them until the time a woman in confinement gives birth. And the rest of his brothers shall return upon the children of Israel.
3And he shall stand and lead with the might of the Lord, with the pride of the Lord, his God: and they shall return, for now he shall become great to the ends of the earth.
Beloved Rabbi, for me what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Tanach, the Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, so God is Omnipresent, am I right?
Quoted Rabbi:->>> There is no evidence that Isaiah 53 is referring to the Messiah from within the Tanakh. It does refer to events that will occur in the messianic age, foretelling the vindication of those who remain faithful to G-d despite all the suffering.
<<<
Not only Yeshayahu 53:1-12 refer to the Messiah, also Michah (Micah)5:1-3, and Zechariah 13:6, Yeshayahu 7:14 & 8:10 combined with Yeshayahu 9:6.
What is written in Yeshayahu 53:1-12 refer to the Anointed One when He would be cut off-Daniel 9:26 confirmed by Zechariah 13:6 and mainly 12:10, that says: 10-> And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with sword]
(as is written in Zechariah 13:7- O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts), and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only SON and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.
Quoted Rabbi:->>> However, “the” Messiah is not spoken of as being cut off in Daniel 12
.<<<
I'm sure I did not say that,
but Daniel 9:26,
also Yeshayahu 53:1-12-> verse 12- Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and INTERCEDED for the transgressors.
Quoted Rabbi:->>> “Mashiah” in the Tanakh is never used referring specifically to the ultimate Redeemer. It means a person appointed to greatness, whether as High Priest, king, or prophet. In this case it refers to the king of Israel who will be killed during the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.<<<
Forgive my frankness, dear Rabbi, your argument on Yeshayahu 53 is far too evasive, our discussion and comments are on Daniel 9:24-27, 70 weeks - 490 years after Daniel prophecy, so the prophecy of Yeshayahu 53 would fulfil literally when the Anointed One would be cut off after the week 62, more precisely after 69 weeks-after 483 years precisely, at some point after 483 years.
All the best
Oseas (Hosea)
