DISCUSSION ABOUT THE JEWISH CALENDAR WITH RABBI SHMARY BROWNSTEIN - CHABAD.ORG
EMAIL EXCHANGE
Oseas R. de Siqueira <
thedayoflord@gmail.com>
para: (to)"Rabbi Shmary Brownstein | Chabad.org" <
mail_co6971198_6212885@chabad.org>
data->(date)30 de abr. de 2025, 01:28am
assunto: Re: Chabad.org: Feedback { Ref. No. 6443688 }
enviado por: gmail.com
22-04-2025 - EMAIL SENT FROM Rabbi Shmary Brownstein to Oseas R. de Siqueira
Chabad.org: Feedback { Ref. No. 6443688 } EMAIL from
Rabbi Shmary Brownstein | Chabad.org
Rabbi Shmary said:
Regarding biblical chronology, I am with you up to the Flood (year 1656).
+2 years = birth of Arpakhshad.
+35 = Shelah.
+30 = Eber.
+34 = Peleg.
+30 = Re’u.
+32 = Serug.
+30 = Nahor.
+29 = Terah.
+70 = Abraham.
Thus Abraham was born 292 years after the Flood, or 1948 from Creation. Abraham lived for 175 years, bringing us to 2123. The Covenant Between the Parts, when Abraham was told of the future exile and redemption, and when the 430 years begin, was when he was 70 years old, in
year 2018. (I don’t know how you arrive at 2083.)
When we add 430 years, we get to the Exodus in year 2448. You then calculate from the Exodus to Saul, for a reason that I cannot fathom. We don’t have an exact way of calculating until Saul; however, we do have a precise number given of when the first Temple was built, in I Kings, 6:1, 480 years after the Exodus, or year 2928. The building continued for 7 years, and the inauguration would have been in year 2935. From the commencement of the building of the Temple until its destruction were 410 years, or year 3338. ->(2928+410=3338).
2935+ 29 = Solomon dies,and Rehav’am succeeds in 2964.
Aviyah succeeds in 2981.->17
Yehoshaphat = 3024.-> 41
Yehoram = 3047.-> 23
Ahazyahu = 3055-> 8
Athalyah = 3056->1
Yeho’ash = 3061->5
Amatzyah = 3100-> 39
Uziyahu = 3115->15
Yotam = 3167-> 52
Ahaz = 3183-> 16
Hizkiyahu = 3199-> 16
Menasheh = 3228-> 29
Amon = 3283-> 55
Yoshiyahu = 3285-> 2
Yeho’ahaz = 3316-> 31
Yehoyakim = 3316->0
Yehoyakhin = 3327->11
Tzidkiyahu = 3327. He ruled 11 years (as we wrote previously).
This brings us to 3338.
OSEAS's REPLY
Dear Rabbi Shmary Brownstein ,
Greetings in the Name of the Lord
Thank you for your kind reply, which deserved the best of my attention. It's a pleasure to talk about Tanack, for me the Word of GOD, the Invisible GOD, Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, certainly will speak in these last days unto us by the promised Messiah->
Isaiah 9:6-7 combined with 11;1-5 and 12:1-6.
I would like to say that my position is not of discussion or even to debate or confrontation, but to search the Truth according to the Tanakh, for me Word of GOD, GOD is the Truth, this is what matters for me, yes, the Truth only.
You said me:" Regarding biblical chronology, I am with you up to the Flood (year 1656)."
Ok.
First of all, Rabbi, regarding Biblical Chronology,
in my view there is a serious mistake in your timeline above.The discrepancy between our timelines begins where you say ""+70=Abraham"". ->(Let's see: At The Covenant Between the Parts, Abram was 75 years old
(Genesis 12:4), not 175 as you cited in your calculation.
So, the correct is 1948+75=2023, not 2123, as you said.
So, there is a difference of exact 100 years in your calculation). From a wrong calculation, all the rest also is wrong, of course.
So, you know that at the Covenant Between the Parts, Abram was 75 years old (Genesis 12:4),
then his father-Terah-, was 130 years old, i.e. after passed 60 years from Abram's birth->(70+60=130~>i.e.205-75=130), this detail cannot be unvalued in the calculation, right? At last, these were their ages at the Covenant. So, the timeline must consider these details in the calculation, of course.
That said, in my view the correct timeline should be made as follow:
+2 years = birth of Arpakhshad.
+35 = Shelah ->37
+30 = Eber.--> 67
+34 = Peleg.->101
+30 = Re’u.-->131
+32 = Serug.->163
+30 = Nahor.->193
+29 = Terah.->222
+70=Abraham->292 (and Nahor and Haran)
Triplets? unthinkable.
+60=Terah'age=130 yrs old at the Covenant Between the Parts(205-75)Gen.12:4.
Sum=352yrs (222+130)not 292, as you said, and it was 2008 from Creation (Beginning of 1st century of 3rd Day,
not 1948 as you said)
+75->age of Abram at the Covenant Between the Parts.
Then it was 2083 from Creation, not 1948 as you said..
So, 2083-1656=427 years.
->In my view, the timeline as above described is exactly what Torah LITERALLY reveals for us.
That said, I believe that you remember that in my Biblical Chronology based in the Torah,
I do mention of seven Biblical periods, as follow:
1- 1st BIBLICAL PERIOD - 1656 YEARS (From Adam to the Flood).
"Regarding biblical chronology, I am with you up to the Flood (year 1656) from Creation".
2- 2nd PERIOD - FROM THE FLOOD TO ABRAM (1656-2083-Covenant Between the Parts) -> Period of 427 years.
Here's the discrepancy between your and my timeline. In my timeline this second period (427 years) is from 1656 until 2083 from Creation, as above described in my timeline,
but your timeline brings up 1656-2123, If we subtract 100 years from your error above the result is 2023.-> 2023-1656=367 years plus 60 years(difference of your calculation or omission in the age of Terah, described in the timeline above)
= 427 years. This is correct. So 2023+60=2083, this also is correct. Your calculation is not corret,->the err is in the age of Terah at the Covenant Between the Parts->130 years old.
3- 3rd PERIOD-FROM ABRAHAM TO THE EXODUS-2083-2513 (430 years)
According to the Torah
->EXODUS 12:40-41,this 3rd Biblical Period lasted LITERALLY 430 years,so from 2083
(not 2023,as you said erroneously) until 2513=430 years.->(2083+430=2513).->It was in the midst of the 3rd GOD's Day or 3rd millennium.
4-4th PERIOD-FROM EXODUS TO THE FIRST KING SAUL-2513-2909=396 yrs.
As you said,"the first Temple was built, in I Kings, 6:1, 480 years after the Exodus. You also said: ->We don’t have an exact way of calculating until Saul; however, we do have a precise number given of when the first Temple was built,
in I Kings, 6:1, 480 years after the Exodus, or year 2928.
OK, Rabbi.
-> According to the Scriptures
(I love so much Scriptures), in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the FOURTH year of Solomon's reign over Israel-->
Here, Rabbi, I do a retroactive calculation, understand? In my timeline this 4th BIBLICAL PERIOD was exact 396 years: I explain: ->Calculating retroactively, as follow:
480-4=476
476-40=436 (David's Reign)
436-40=396 (Saul's Reign),
so exact 396 years->
So, adding 2513+396=2909 years from Exodus to the first King Sha'ul, and from Creation. (To compare; In your erroneous timeline is 2453+396=2849- so persists the difference of 60 years.->
The correct is 2909).
5-5TH PERIOD-FROM SAUL(2909) TO THE FALL JUDAH'S KINGDOM (3417)->DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM -> (2909-3417 -> 508 years)
Regarding this 5th period
you, Rabbi, said as follow:
( We don’t have an exact way of calculating until Saul; however, we do have a precise number given of when the first Temple was built, in 1 Kings, 6:1, 480 years after the Exodus, or year 2928).
2909 Begining of Kingdom of Saul -> (your erroneous timeline=2849)
+40 years = 2949 - kingdom of Saul -> (your erroneous timeline=2889)
+40 years = 2989 - Kingdom of David -> (your erroneous timeline=2929)
+40 years = 3029 - Kingdom of Solomon -> (your erroneous timeline=2969)
+388 years=3417->From Saul to Destr.Temple->(your erroneous time=3357)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (
adding your err of 60 years as above showed = 3417)
That said, from 2909(king Saul) to the fall Judah's Kingdom(3417)= 508 years
6- 6TH PERIOD OF BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY - FROM THE FALL OF JERUSALEM AND KINGDOM OF JUDAH, UNTIL THE NEW DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE, AND NOW ALL THE PEOPLE ARE EXILED-> DIASPORAH = -> 653 YEARS
This sixth period is from 3417 to 4070(1st century of the fifth God's Day), when the Temple was destroyed again, by the second time.
Period of 653 years. ->4070-3417->(destrution of Judah's kingdom) = 653 years
7- 7TH PERIOD OF BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY - FROM 4070 UNTIL 1948->ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL ->1878 YEARS OF DIASPORA PLUS 77 YEARS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL->1955 YEARS.
So, 4070 plus 1955= 6025 YEARS, we are exactly at the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last GOD's Day or seventh and last millennium.
That said, from 4070 until this current time,the Hebrew or Jewish Calendar, according to the content of Torah,
it should point year 6025,
the turn from the sixth to the seventh GOD's Day, not 5785 as is pointed in the Timeline of Jewish History with a difference of exact but incomprehensible 240 years if compared with the Hebrew Bible Chronology, The correct is 6025, what matters and prevails is the Tanakh.
Therefore, how can the Hebrew people deny the Biblical Chronology of the Torah, if they consider themselves as GOD's people or as the elected people of GOD?
CONTINUATION OF RABBI'S EMAIL
70 years of exile in Babylon until the building began on the second Temple (after having been stopped) gets us to year 3408. The second Temple stood for 420 years, and we arrive at 3828. You do not give any calculation of how you arrive at the years that you do. However, as you say that each day of Creation corresponds to 1,000 years, the fourth day would be between years 3000-4000. This is the day on which G-d suspended both the large luminary (the sun) and the small luminary (the moon) in the heavens. These allude to both Temples. Thus both were during the fourth millennium.
Yes, it's right. The 4th GOD's Day is from 3000-4000, and GOD made the two Great Luminaries: the Great Luminary (it has nothing to do with Sun, but the Messiah-John 5:43-47), and the Lesser Luminary(it has nothing to do with Moon, but the Person of Holy Spirit, the ancient of days-Daniel 7:22), and the stars (these have nothing to do with trillions of stars of the sky, but the righteous and wisers-Daniel 12:3).
Yes, as I said in the end of my comment above, the Timeline of Jewish History gives a difference of exact but incomprehensible 240 years if compared with the Hebrew Bible Chronology, Why the Hebrew Calendar begins from -3760 and not from -4000?
If we take your 3828 as above plus 240 years, the sum is 4068(4070), so the Hebrew Calendar doesn't fit with Tanakh as I have showed in the timeline above. When I say 1000 years is as a Day with the Lord, it is not Oseas who speaks, in fact Oseas is speaking as Moses spoke-Psalms 90:4. Oseas only asserts what Moses said. Read Psalm 90:4 and 12.
You said in your interpretation: ""G-d suspended both the large luminary (the sun) and the small luminary (the moon) in the heavens"". Oh please, dear Rabbi, and all who think like you, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD's perspective. What was/is revealed by GOD in Genesis 1:16, it has nothing to do with the creation of Sun and Moon, oh no, absolutely not. What GOD made in the END of the fourth Day was the LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Malachi chapter 3, saying: Behold! The angel of the covenant, whom you desire, is coming, says the Lord of Hosts. Now who can abide the Day of his coming, and who will stand when he appears, for it is like FIRE that refines and like fullers' soap. And the SUN that comes shall burn them up so that it will leave them neither root nor branch, says the Lord of Hosts.
In the other hand, "the Sun of mercy shall rise with healing in its wings for you who fear My Name, says the Lord of Hosts, you shall discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves God and him who has not served Him.. .
The Greater Light is the Messiah, the Lesser Light is the Holy Spirit. About the Holy Spirit, Isaiah said: ->But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit, and He was turned to be their enemy; He fought with them-Isaiah 63:10.
Yes, it is important to discern what GOD made in the fourth millennium , around 4000 year after Adam. . .
If we take the year 70 as accurate for the destruction of the second Temple, and thus push it forward to year 3830, then we are now 1,955 years out, which brings us to 5785. There is a difference of 240 years between the two calculations, but they are not based on the Tanakh.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, Rabbi, it is exact what I wrote before to read this point you concern,
and it is in the 7th period of Biblical Chronology, as follow below: ,
7- 7th PERIOD OF BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY - FROM 4070 UNTIL 1948->ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL ->1878 YEARS OF DIASPORA PLUS 77 YEARS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL->1955 YEARS.
So, 4070 plus 1955= 6025 YEARS, we are exactly at the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium.
That said, from 4070 until this current time, the Hebrew or Jewish Calendar, according to the content of Torah, it should point year 6025, the turn from the sixth to the seventh GOD's Day,
not 5785 as is pointed in the Timeline of Jewish History with a difference of exact but incomprehensible 240 years if compared with the Hebrew Bible Chronology,
Thefore, how can the Hebrew people deny the Biblical Chronology of the Torah, if they consider themselves as GOD's people or as the elected people of GOD?
You, Rabbi, you said me that
>>The years that you give are arbitrary and not based on the Tanakh, as far as I can tell. So I don’t know on what basis you say that the years given in Jewish tradition are not aligned with the Tanakh. They are not aligned with your years, but they are aligned with the Tanakh.<<
Oh, quite the opposite, Rabbi, the timeline that I have posted is based strictly in the Tanack: Genesis 5:1-32; and 11:10-32; and 12:1-4; and Exodus 12:40-41; and 1Kings 6:1; and (Acts 13:21) to help.
Your Calendar, Rabbi, the Jewish Calendar, begins, saying:
Creation of Heaven and Earth, and Adam and Eve
Secular year jewish year Event in History
-3760 1 Creation of the world; birth of Adam and Eve (Chavah)
Now, now, Rabbi, you know that each GOD's Day corresponds to 1000 years of man's day of 24hs
6 God's Day = 6000 years or 120 cycles of 50 years.
1 (first) God's Day - from 0 - 1000 years
-3760????? 1 ->1st God's Day???? -> Would not be -4000 1 instead 3760?
I do not believe because it doen't fit with Tanakh.
CONTINUATION OF RABBI'S EMAIL
Regarding the 430 years, the passage from Galatians that you cite precisely backs me up, and you yourself accepted it in your timeline, when you said “from Abraham to Exodus, 430 years.” Galatians says that the law came “430 years later” after Abraham, not after Jacob and his sons went down to Egypt. Why do you call my arguments “earthly?” They are based on what is written in the Torah. You also make claims, yet you assume that they are somehow “heavenly?” The Torah says 430 years, but when it is clear that Israel was not in Egypt for 430 years (there is no disputing that),
then we understand that the 430 years are counted from a different point. Thus we uphold both verses. Your scriptures agree with me, as above.
(By the way, you consider Galatians to be Scripture, even though there is no warrant for this.
It is not prophetic in any way. It is not more Divine than the Talmud and the Midrash, in fact less so. But because you think of it as “the Bible,” you think its authority is above that of the Talmud etc. You believe your Bible is Divinely inspired, and we believe that our Talmud is tradition going back to Moses and insights guided by the Holy Spirit of G-d (not the trinitarian idea).
Your position is no more defensible than ours, in fact less so.)
Why do you say that the Sages of Israel despised G-d’s discipline and threw His word behind them? May such a thing never be said. It is blasphemous and highly disrespectful.
If anything, the Christians have thrown G-d’s word behind them, declaring that the laws of the Torah are null and void. There is no more Sabbath, no more Kosher, no more Tefillin, there is now a new religion that supersedes the “old covenant.”
Our Sages, on the other hand, cherished every word of the Tanakh, and explained each verse on a very granular level. The reason why you believe them to have rejected G-d’s word is because that is what is taught by the false teachers of Christianity.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, Rabbi, my Scriptures agree with you as you said above, of course it agree, Galatians was written around 2000 years ago, the author had a profound knowledge of the Tanakh,
what I see is that he confirmed LITERALLY what is written in Exodus 12:40-41, and I also do the same, because althoug be a Gentile I believe in the Old Testament (for you Tanakh), and I call the OT as Word of GOD, not a simple content of man->the tree of good and evil-Genesis 3:22 combined with 2:17, as GOD warned us, and commanded us do not eat from the fruit of the speech of man
(or men),
because their speeech is mortal, understand?
So it is not true what you thought and wrote saying that "I think the Bible is more Divine than the Talmud and the Midrash, or its authority is above that of the Talmud etc.", ->
Oh no, Rabbi, I do not think what you think that I think.
In my vision, Rabbi, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD-Jeremiah 23:28 combined with Isaiah 8:20-22. The Word->(not the letter of the word, but the Spirit)->the Word is God, the Spirit of the Invisible God, the Word is God, God Himself, God the Father, the Power, Self-executing, Self-executable->
Psalms 33:9 Tanakh -> "For He said and it came about; He commanded and it endured".(or it appeared, or was made), understand? He is the God that I know, He is the Tree of Life, God is Life, understand? Isaiah 49:1-7 combined with 42:6-Ancient of days-Daniel 7:22.
