IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

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Oseas

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IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

1John 5:v.7
There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father-The WORD- , the Word-The Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person) : and these three are One.

THREE DIVINE PERSONS
We need to re-estudy our conceptions about the person of Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, mentioned in John 14:v.16 and 26, and I hope he helps to all to know him better, because he is not the own JESUS in His return as some think, no, absolutely no. In fact, he is the third among the three. DETAIL: He is the LESSER among the three.
Would not the person of the Holy Spirit be the LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS?-Luke 15:v.32. Maybe EQUALLY to ALL READERS of this present post being brothers of JESUS by adoption? By the way, this was/is one of JESUS's main objetive-John 17:v.20-21. Check it.

Many many time ago (18th century),"Mr. Porson asked; “Why is the epithet [holy,]” after being twice omitted, added [to Spirit] in the seventh verse?"
Beza says, “In order to distinguish one Spirit from the other, ut ab eo distinguatur cujus fit mentio in sequenti versu." Perhaps, too, because when the Three Divine Persons are connumerated in the same passage, as in Matth. xxviii. 19, 2 Cor. xiii. 13, the epithet was usually added. It may also be asked, why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically? The reason appears to be, because in one the unity is essential and real; in the other, ADVENTITiOUS and APPARENT only; and because the eighth verse is dependent on the seventh, as a RELATIVE is on its antecedent.*
The above comments of Porson and Beza are very interesting, the writers try, among doubts, to understand the deep mysteries of Three Divine Persons, and even they progress to a certain point in their vision, without however reaching the main goal: Identify who is the character to which it was added the epithet [holy,] In fact, this is very profound and is not easy to penetrate in this wonderful heavenly environment although OUR PRIVILEGE to be "living or dwelling" spiritually even in heaven through / by the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD - or in heavenly place in Christ as is revealed in Ephesians 1:v.3-7, among others, as below:
3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself (Hallelujaaah), according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.-JESUS-. Songs of Solomon chap. 2;5;6;8.

AGAIN: THREE DIVINE PERSONS

1 - THE PERSON OF GOD, GOD FATHER - THE WORD
Although GOD -the Word- be invisible, the true believers know many things about HIM because JESUS revealed Him (Matt.11:v.27 among others). By the way, in His pray Lord JESUS said: John 17:v.4-10 :
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

2 - THE PERSON OF GOD, GOD SON-JESUS - THE WORD MADE FLESH
No need to comment. The Person of JESUS is known from two thousand years ago-Hebrews 1:v.1-3. In fact, the person of JESUS was known many time before, His birth was preached by the prophets, the Spirit of Christ was in them-1 Peter 1:v.10-12.
In fact, the Person of JESUS (Behold the man!) is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too, as is written in Acts 19:v.15.

3 - THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT - AN UNKNOWN PERSON
The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person, and as a Person, as was JESUS in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown. As a Person, he has several missions, as JESUS said:;

JESUS said: John 16:v.12-15 and v.8-11:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.

WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?
- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- As I said above, JESUS, or the NAME of JESUS, is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written (in the Holy Scriptures, course) that no MAN knows, but he himself. I repit: He has not genealogy as JESUS has, he is not a Jew.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven (Behold the man! John 19:5) not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In the other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, but in a Gentile nation. His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, for he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine. This exposed picture or figure is like the Sun and Moon. The Moon receives light from the Sun and reflets the light over the Earth; Regardings the light of JESUS reflected by the Holy Spirit over the Earth, I can see by analogy in Genesis 1:v.16:-And GOD made two great lights; the Greater Light to rule the day, and the Lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Revelation 12:1-2&5.
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman(the Church of the Lord JESUS) clothed with the Sun (JESUS and His Light, the Greater Light), and the moon (the Lesser light - the person of the Holy Spirit) under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (The twelve Apostles of the Lord JESUS)
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 5-And she brought forth a man child - the person of the Holy Spirit- , who was to rule all nations (EXCEPT ISRAEL) with a rod of iron: and her child was CAUGHT UP unto GOD, and to His throne. By the way, about GOD's Throne-Psalm 97:v.1-2CJB say: The Lord is king, let the earth rejoice, let the many coasts and islands be glad.
2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him; Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of His throne.

That said, what was asked by Mr. Porson and answered by Beza has sense, as was exposed above and I transcribe below:
Again: Mr.Porson asked: "Why is the epithet [holy,] ” after being twice omitted, added [to Spirit] in the seventh verse? Beza says:“In order to distinguish one Spirit from the other, ut ab eo distinguatur cujus fit mentio in sequenti versu."

I highlight also the explanation below mainly where the commenter tries to understand and asks "why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically?" His conclusion is much much more interesting and impressive when he says: The reason appears to be, because in one THE UNITY is essential and real; in the other, ADVENTITIOUS and APPARENT ONLY (highlight mine); and because the eighth verse is dependent on the seventh, AS A RELATIVE (yeah, as a RELATIVE) is on its antecedent".
Perhaps, too, because when the Three Divine Persons are connumerated in the same passage, as in Matth. xxviii. 19, 2 Cor. xiii. 14, the epithet was usually added. It may also be asked, why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically? The reason appears to be, because in one the unity is essential and real; in the other, adventitious and APPARENT only; and because the eighth verse is dependent on the seventh, as a RELATIVE is on its antecedent.*

How to understand the adventitious and apparent connection of the Holy Spirit as a Person, the smallest Person among the three, I mean with God the Father, and Jesus, and even so, so small Person, being One with God the Father and Jesus? Great mystery.

QUESTION: Would not he be the LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS?-Luke 15:v.32, equally maybe as ALL READERS of this present post being brothers of JESUS by adoption? By the way, this was/is one of JESUS's main objetive-John 17:v.20-21. Check it.

Yi-Ming Shao

The lowercase "spirit" is correct in Acts 11.12, and in Acts 11.28, and in 1 John 5.8. Cheers, and God bless.
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Oseas

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Revelation 12:v.1-2

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven (celestial place in Christ Jesus-Ephesians 1:v.3); a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven (celestial place in Christ Jesus-Ephesians 1:v.3) ; and behold a great red Dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 ... and the great red Dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to DEVOUR her child as soon as it was born. (He was born and the Devil, the red Dragon, was in the same environment of the prophetic birth of the MAN child)

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was CAUGHT up unto GOD -GOD the Father-, and to his Throne. (Note: but not as a baby)
Psalm 97:v. 1-2 - 1 The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.
2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of His Throne.

Luke 15:v.11 to 32

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country (a strange country), and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country (a strange country); and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him (gave nothing to him).

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more WORTHY to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.

27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
 
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Oseas

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Philippians 3:v.20 - our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ; yes, our conversation is in heaven, it's according Ephesians 1:v.3, but is it not coming to EARTH? Good question. Of course it is in the Earth.

Revelation 11:v.15 peremptorily states: The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

And JESUS in His Ministry said: They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain(to reach) that WORLD, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children of GOD(John 1:v.12), being the children of the resurrection-Luke 20:v.35-36.

As we know, the Word is GOD, right?-John 1:v.1. The Word is self-executing because is GOD(great mystery), the Word is the Power, yeah, is the Power, the verses above quoted were written when the Word-i.e. GOD-was made flesh self-NAMED JESUS, "Who being the brightness of GOD's glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of His Person(GOD's Person), and upholding all things by the Word of His Power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty -(at right hand of the Power) on high-Hebrews 1:v.8.

1 GOD -the Father-, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days -last two days- spoken unto us by His Son -GOD's Son-verse 8, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also-by JESUS-He made the worlds; (In the beginning - in JESUS- GOD the Father-the Word-created the heavens and the earth).
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by the Word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the ANGELS, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent NAME than they.

7 And of the ANGELS, GOD saith, Who maketh His angels spirits/winds-, and His ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son, GOD saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
JESUS IS GOD, i.e. the Word made flesh.

IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32 1John 5:v.7 There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father-The WORD- , the Word-The Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a...
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keyofdavid

New member
Oseas said:
IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

1John 5:v.7
There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father-The WORD- , the Word-The Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person) : and these three are One.
Click to expand...

Why do come to the pure bible forum and talk against the Word?

This is what it says:

5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I was going to respond to some of the finer points of what you wrote, but stop saying the Holy Ghost is not a ghost mixing the Word with your dung.
 
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Oseas

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IS NOT THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:v.32

Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 51:v.14 - 17

Isaiah 51:v.14 KJV
14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.

15 But I am the Lord thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The Lord of hosts is his name. (the sea, whose waves roared: are peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)

16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah 51:v.14 CJB - Complete Jewish Bible
14 The captive will soon be set free;
he will not die and go down to Sh’ol;
on the contrary, his food supply will be secure.
15 For I am Adonai your God,
who stirs up the sea, who makes its waves roar —
Adonai-Tzva’ot is my name.
16 I have put my words in your mouth
and covered you with the shadow of my hand,
in order to plant the skies [anew],
lay the foundations of the earth [anew]
and say to Tziyon, ‘You are my people.’”
17 Awake! Awake! Stand up, Yerushalayim!

Isaiah 51:v.14 - Chabad
14 What must be poured out hastened to be opened, and he shall not die of destruction, and his bread shall not be wanting. ידמִהַ֥ר צֹעֶ֖ה לְהִפָּתֵ֑חַ וְלֹֽא־יָמ֣וּת לַשַּׁ֔חַת וְלֹ֥א יֶחְסַ֖ר לַחְמֽוֹ:

15 I am the Lord your God, Who wrinkles the sea and its waves stir; the Lord of Hosts is His name. טווְאָֽנֹכִי֙ יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ רֹגַ֣ע הַיָּ֔ם וַיֶּֽהֱמ֖וּ גַּלָּ֑יו יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת שְׁמֽוֹ:

16 And I placed My words into your mouth, and with the shadow of My hand I covered you, to plant the heavens and to found the earth and to say to Zion [that] you are My people. טזוָֽאָשִׂ֚ים דְּבָרַי֙ בְּפִ֔יךָ וּבְצֵ֥ל יָדִ֖י כִּסִּיתִ֑יךָ לִנְטֹ֚עַ שָׁמַ֙יִם֙ וְלִיסֹ֣ד אָ֔רֶץ וְלֵאמֹ֥ר לְצִיּ֖וֹן עַמִּי־אָֽתָּה:
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15982

Isaiah 51:v.14-16 JFA - Portuguese language:
14 O exilado CATIVO depressa será solto, e não morrerá na caverna, e o seu pão não lhe faltará.
15 Porque eu sou o SENHOR, teu Deus, que fende o mar e bramem as suas ondas(povos, nações, multidões e línguas). SENHOR dos Exércitos é o seu nome.
16 E ponho as minhas palavra na tua boca e te cubro com a sombra da minha mão, para plantar os céus, e para fundar a terra, e para dizer a Sião: Tu és o meu povo.

Isaiah 51:v.14 - A mix of CJB & KJV & Chabad
The captive will soon be set free-CJB(he may be loosed-KJV); he will not die and go down to Sh’ol-CJB (he should not die in the pit-KJV); on the contrary, his food supply will be secure-CJB (his bread shall not be wanting-Chabad).
 
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Oseas

Member
keyofdavid said:
Why do come to the pure bible forum and talk against the Word?

This is what it says:

5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I was going to respond to some of the finer points of what you wrote, but stop saying the Holy Ghost is not a ghost mixing the Word with your dung.
Click to expand...
You are saying that because you believe in ghost. By the way, many Americans believe too and have a lot of literatures about.
But in fact, the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as you think He is, and as is written in the Bible of English language.

The Holy Spirit is a Person as JESUS also is even after His resurrection-John 24:v.36-43-Check it.

To speak of the Person of the Holy Spirit it is necessary, first of all, to have the Holy Spirit.
 
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keyofdavid

New member
Oseas said:
You are saying that because you believe in ghost. By the way, many Americans believe too and have a lot of literatures about.
But in fact, the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as you think He is, and as is written in the Bible of English language.

The Holy Spirit is a Person as JESUS also is even after His resurrection-John 24:v.36-43-Check it.

To speak of the Person of the Holy Spirit it is necessary, first of all, to have the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
I don't really care how you interpret the text if we agree on the text. But if you change the text to support your crappy beliefs then that is a different text.

If you believe the Holy Ghost is not a ghost, then I can reason with about that, no matter how insane that sounds.

But if you half quote the text and just remove those words replacing them with your own, what on earth do you think you are doing?
 
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Oseas

Member
keyofdavid said:
I don't really care how you interpret the text if we agree on the text.
Click to expand...
The true text of 1John 5:v.7 is:- For there are three witnesses in heaven- the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One. 1 John 5:v.7 ISV
The verse above is the truer and most correct translation for anyone who knows the Person of the Holy Spirit.

keyofdavid said:
But if you change the text to support your crappy beliefs then that is a different text.
Click to expand...
I believe in the interpretation that is a pure Bible, I didn't change anything, that's an evil accusation against me, what matters and prevails is the Truth. GOD is Truth. And you need to know the Truth, then Truth shall make you free. By the way, your spirit is not bored because my belief, but because of the Truth according the verse quoted above, which your evil spirit calls it of crappy.

keyofdavid said:
If you believe the Holy Ghost is not a ghost, then I can reason with about that, no matter how insane that sounds.
Click to expand...
As I said, the Person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as you believe, either lowercase or uppercase.
I believe in the Person of the Holy Spirit and I know him, he is one of the three DISTINCTS Persons in GOD the Father, i.e. in the Word self-executing, the Word is GOD, understand?

keyofdavid said:
But if you half quote the text and just remove those words replacing them with your own, what on earth do you think you are doing?
Click to expand...
What does the Word made flesh says? JESUS said: John 16:v.12-13 and 15:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come -the Person of the Holy Spirit-, HE will guide you into all Truth: for HE shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak: and HE will shew you things to come.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that HE shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto

Is not HE the ancient of days?

Here's who the Ancient of days is

It is very hard to speak of GOD's mysteries - the mysteries of the Person of the Word - our GOD. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days (last two days or last two millenniums) spoken unto us by His Son...
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keyofdavid

New member
Oseas said:
The verse above is the truer and most correct translation for anyone who knows the Person of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Translation of what?
If Holy Spirit is the correct translation of your text then you have the wrong text.
What is your text?
 
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Oseas

Member
keyofdavid said:
Translation of what?
If Holy Spirit is the correct translation of your text then you have the wrong text.
What is your text?
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with the Holy Spirit. Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.
 
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keyofdavid

New member
Oseas said:
There is nothing wrong with the Holy Spirit. Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.
Click to expand...
Reasserting your position doesn't prove anything. I suggest you withdraw your accusation against the Holy Ghost or suffer the consequences.
 
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