question for Homestead Heritage about marriage permanence and allowing remarriage

[Steven Avery]

This is what could be asked of Homestead Heritage by a loving couple considering joining up.
And anybody interested in Bible, Authorized Version, truth.

Homestead Heritage Contacts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/homesteadheritagecontacts/posts/2693715474260586/

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We are a couple in a covenant marriage, neither of us had an earlier marriage.

We are interested in Homestead Heritage.
We would like to know what happens in the following circumstances.

One of us is fully committed and accepts the ministry and does the baptism "vow".

The other one pulls out, feeling the ministry is false, and moves back home to family.

There does not seem to be any reconciliation on the horizon.
There may be a legal separation or divorce, but that is not really important.
Similarly, there may be children, but that does not effect the essence of the question.

Would it be correct for the spouse in Homestead to "stand" for the marriage?
Unconditionally and indefinitely.

Or might the elders, in their prayer direction, from "yahweh", counsel that, after a divorce, the one in Homestead might remarry?

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Is Homestead Heritage familiar with the teachings of David Pawson (1930-2020) ?

Have they written anything on his position of marriage permanence?
Do they agree?

 

[Steven Avery]

Note: Homestead Heritage almost surely reads this, since they watch the Homestead Heritage contacts forum.

Thus, they will have time to formulate the slipperiest answers possible.
One of their skills.

So listen carefully.
This is phrased in such a way as to eliminate loopholes.

 

[Steven Avery]

And pretend there is no divorce and remarriage involving couples covenanted to Homrstead.

The Homestead Heritage leaders dance around marriage permanence.

https://www. youtube.com/live/IocoI0LcJbQ?si=MY7zEFKyn1OR2M4_&t=2245

37:25 to 51:15

marriage “permanence”

 

[Steven Avery]

37:26
one coming here it looks like okay does that answer your question

37:35
brother okay I'm trying to follow this hi Homestead will you comment on the

37:42
full marriage permanence doctrinal Bible Understanding which says that a covenant

37:48
first and only marriage is truly for

37:53
Life yeah and and is not abrogated by a secular divorce and thus there

38:01
is thus there is property standing for the restoration of the

38:07
Covenant marriage I don't I don't follow that might be a translation issue maybe

38:12
so there is maybe proper standing for the restoration of the Covenant marriage

38:18
rather than seeking an adulterous remarriage amen so it's the divorce and

38:23
remarriage position um and that is the

38:28
one view among um conservative Christians today is that Jesus prohibits

38:35
remarriage after divorce um and that that the under all

38:41
circumstances under all circumstances and that the the individual's repentance and regeneration has no bearing on that

38:49
and that the only remedy for such an an inappropriate marriage is another

38:55
divorce um to go back and and reinstate the old marriage um is this this is

39:02
probably what they're commenting on well I'll give it a stab but some of

39:08
you others pick it up in the broadest sense is it Hagi Dan the minor Prophet

39:15
who makes perhaps the most sweeping statement on divorce he says God hates

39:21
divorce is it Malachi thank you Malachi who says God hates divorce

39:28
and uh we know that Jesus also says go and learn what this means I desire mercy

39:35
and the the word that he's translating from the new from the Old Testament is HED which is Covenant keeping the

39:42
ability to keep one's Covenant this is also referring to keeping the marriage and then we also

39:50
see that that he is speaking in in in in the gospels and he is saying that you know you should not whoever marries

39:57
after being divorced uh commits adultery and so on and so forth and and the

40:03
question in the broadest sense and I I might punt it to some others here since

40:08
we have others here or yourself um here let's pass this to your dad

40:15
uh but the question in the broadest sense is if God hates divorce can we

40:22
remedy a past divorce with another divorce is that how God is going to

40:28
remedy a sin and then the other question is when Paul says that old things have
40:36
passed away and all things have become new is that is that to be taken
40:42
literally or does that ex is that all things except former marriages is there
40:49
an exception there when he says all things have become new that you see in Scripture that would not include
40:56
marriage under that when he says he's a new creation and when he speaks of repentance as
41:03
dying and he says that when the old husband is dead she is free to marry you
41:09
know the the the essence of the questions are will God remedy a past
41:15
divorce with an additional divorce it seems highly unlikely and and and is are
41:20
we to take Paul literally when he says all things have been made new and his
41:25
conversion the end end of our past situation um I suppose there's also
41:31
discussion about the fact that he was speaking to a cultivated Olive Branch when he made those statements but you
41:39
want to chime in on this you know it's almost like marriage in the world is an
41:45
unforgivable sin it can't be erased but the Bible describes marriage as what God
41:54
has put together let no man put a under and I'll tell you a lot of what they call marriage out there certainly is not
42:02
God putting something together and to abrigate something like that and say
42:09
like we had a situation where a person had been married at 16 years of age to
42:15
literally a drunken sailor for one day and when they were in their
42:23
adulthood being missionaries in another country they came across this
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Doctrine and they uh married they had at least two kids at this time they came
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across this Doctrine and the husband and wife separated and it damaged the family
42:42
Beyond oh it was just terrible and do you think God loves that if God hates
42:47
divorce absolutely not does he smile on what that did to the children on what that did to the relationship amen
42:55
absolutely not and and will it would almost make it that if two
43:01
people just cohabit then they can remarry I mean they can marry after they come to God
43:08
but if they ever went before a justice of the peace or if they ever whatever
43:13
they call the the secular society calls marriage then they are forbidden should
43:20
that not have been God and should they have been divorced they're forbidden forever to be married again it just does
43:27
not follow from the nature of God that that a mistake made at 16 years of age
43:35
would be you could not be absolved of that mistake and be set free the Paul
43:41
explicitly says that you are married to the one until the husband dies well if
43:47
you're dying to your old man you really are being set free from those old
43:53
covenants because even in the Old Testament covenant made by someone could
43:59
be abreg by the Father the father has the the capacity to make all things new
44:08
and I think it's a it's a damaging legalism can I just say that that the if
44:14
we were to take their interpretation and put it in the context of a Covenant Community it would make
44:21
sense absolutely but where we disagree so to be clear we don't have anybody
44:27
marrying getting divorced and remarrying here but we have people who were married
44:34
in a former context under sin or even uh
44:39
walking in some level of Christianity and falling into some sin and then
44:44
coming to a repentance and coming back that's a different that's a totally different scenario so in the context of
44:52
of a continuous Faith Community we would find it absolutely outrageous and Beyond
44:58
The Pale of possible that someone would marry get divorced and remarry again in
45:03
the community but if if if the old marriage is classified as part of the
45:10
old creation that is completely dead and the new creation is thereby completely
45:17
new then that that's that's the firewall between those two and and just we we
45:24
would have to take all the other sins that the Lord hates and still impute them if that old man is
45:31
not actually dead and all things have not in fact become new amen and when he
45:38
says you know go and sin no more what was the sin that in these marriages that
45:46
took place out in the world and such like that the sin was marrying outside
45:51
of the will of God so the sin wasn't the divorce and the marriage the sin was
45:58
Disobedience to God God didn't put them together you know and so if you go and sin no more when you come to God you are
46:07
committing I am never again going to let my will determine whether I'm married or
46:14
not but I'm only going to obey the will of God and with something like that if
46:19
God does ordained for that person to find another mate in the kingdom of God
46:26
they're not not sinning again they have repented of the sin of marrying according to their own will and now
46:33
they're marrying according to God's will amen what are you going to say I'm just
46:39
thinking you know I've heard the argument made before uh that if you do
46:46
this then you open the door to uh divorce basically you've created kind of
46:51
an open playing field where you're destroying the sanctity of marriage because everybody knows you can divorce
46:57
and then you have options you know and I think to the point you were making a second ago it's simply not been true in
47:04
our context something else is missing from the picture if that's the fruit
47:09
that results from allowing for this type of remarriage yes uh because it's not
47:15
the fruit that we've seen no in 50 years we haven't had a divorce yeah so uh
47:20
marriage can indeed be Sanctified without clinging rigidly to something like this that requires these
47:27
conundrums yeah you know and the doctrine it's an interpretation of
47:33
Jesus's words that the script there's at least considerable ambiguity in trying
47:39
to harmonize Paul and Jesus in how we should look at these things and the
47:45
doctrine Bears horrible fruit and I don't believe that I I think we're supposed to know the doctrine the
47:52
interpretation there that is by its fruit and it Bears horrible fruit how you can say that God would remedy his
47:59
hatred for Divorce by creating two divorces instead of one is a remarkable way of reasoning
48:06
amen there's a followup here that just come in and I don't know if it's the same person or not it says would you
48:12
countenance a truly single person marrying a person divorced even though
48:18
that is adultery in the Bible I think that's what's in question that's what we're talking about is that
48:24
adultery in the Bible or not that that's the point that we're talking so if if somebody in the community as a
48:31
Believer purporting to be a believer um divorces his wife he may not marry
48:38
anyone else period categorical that's the end of the matter there are other
48:45
Provisions for divorce that are sanctioned by Christ and would even seem to be mandated by Paul but that's not
48:51
what we're discussing here however if an if somebody comes from an insufficient
48:58
repentance and comes to a profound repentance a sufficient
49:03
repentance from the world into the church their past is passed away and
49:10
anybody who makes it less than passed away is capitalizing on one scripture to
49:15
the neglect of others either all things are passed away and all things are made
49:21
new or they're not and his past life before this conversion has got to be
49:27
wiped away and then he may marry because the old one is dead and all the sins and
49:34
actions imputed to him he may marry again if if if this if this cleavage has
49:40
in fact happened from an unrepented life to a repented life and I think that a
49:46
lot of this boils down to the fact that the anabaptists largely do not understand conversion or the new birth
49:52
and so because there is no real moment of pro found repentance deliverance and
49:59
empowerment of the spirit they just Ooze from one form of legalism into another
50:04
and therefore there it is less decisively evident when one thing has died and another
50:13
lives Junior I would like to just again
50:18
emphasize brother Howard's point of marriage is what God has joined together
50:26
so if in the old life that passed away human beings had put together some
50:33
arrangement of two people that Arrangement has also been
50:39
has been done away with uh upon repentance we can't we don't necessarily
50:46
need to call that marriage just because they called it marriage there are a lot of things that are being called marriage
50:53
today are we going to hold people to those things also all of the old life of
51:00
sin pass passes away upon authentic repentance and conversion amen and none
51:08
of this happens in the context of of a Covenant Community that has racal lied
51:15
marriage and its Covenant okay we have a couple more okay come in now

 

[Steven Avery]

https:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja8yAc_WVKQ&lc=UgwW6Ngnrp2tmaL-IM14AaABAg

Yes, Lynn, thanks for sharing, good ear. And the situation is actually even worse than just the "old things" cop-out, with the emphasis on trying to claim that marriages before Christian regeneration have no authority, (or even significance, based on what they said on Saturday.) If an established married couple (covenant spouses, ie. first and only) in the fellership, even after decades together, has a split, and it goes to divorce, the "elders" will consider the non-approved spouse on the outs as "dead". Thus, the pseudo-death can be used for justifying an adulterous "remarriage" (of the spouse that remains in the community.) Yep, this happens. Note that they will generally try to get the divorce done after one person is gone away (so they can say that no one divorces "in" the fellership). And they will assist in divorces of covenant spouses. They are holding out the cherry, look, you are young, or strong like bull, be not concerned, we can find you another! From the point of view of marriage permanence, they have been sliding down a very slippery slope since around AD 2000. In the 1970s and into the 80s it was very different. In general, they give far too much credence to a secular "divorce", used for their convenience. And have largely left the Biblical pattern of a faithful individual standing for the restoration of the covenant marriage. Blessings and grace in Jesus name, Steven