parchment science? - “does not deteriorate with age” ?!

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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TwoNoteableCorruptions said:
THE BIRTH OF THE CODEX
COLIN H. ROBERTS and T.C. SKEAT
(C) 1987 reissue [1983] The British Academy
Chapter 2
PAPYRUS AND PARCHMENT
Pages 7-8
parchment of good [Page 08] quality is the finest writing material ever devised by man. It is immensely strong, remains flexible indefinitely under normal conditions, does not deteriorate with age,{16}
Click to expand...
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak/courses/735/book/codex-rev1.html

Footnote

16/ Cf. Pliny, N.H. 13, 70, describing parchment as 'rei qua constat immortalitas hominum'. [[something that guarantees human immortality]]

Elliott
In The Birth of the Codex , published in 1983, his co-author, the late C. H. Roberts, and the author put forward, two alternative hypotheses to explain the extraordinary predilection of the early Christians for the codex form of book as opposed to the roll. When Colin Roberts published his magisterial monograph The Codex in 1954 there were 22 known papyrus fragments of the Gospels, ranging in date from the 2nd century to the 6th or 7th. Since then 20 more Gospel fragments have come to light, and again everyone is from a codex.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-016-0083-4

Parchment​

Parchment is a post mortem tissue, composed mainly of collagen type I. It has been traditionally produced from animal skins, such as goat, sheep, cow, camel, etc., after a manufacturing process that varies according to geographical locations, which mainly includes processing with soaking, liming, unhairing, fleshing and drying [11]. As a result, residual quantities of chemicals, more importantly calcium carbonate (as the result of lime exposure to atmospheric carbon dioxide) are evident. Other inorganic and organic substances may be found such as alum, silicates, oils, tannins, etc., which affect the texture and hardness of the material [12, 13]. Significantly, the material that is produced has already a degree of deterioration related to the initial material in animal skin; this includes partial hydrolysis of peptide chains and gelatinization [14–16].
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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PBF

parchment science
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/parchment-science.3259/#post-13519

Nikolai Alexandrovich Morozov handles Sinaiticus, notes the Tischendorf antiquity claims are false

Nikolai Alexandrovich Morozov (1854-1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Alexandrovich_Morozov Prophets: the history of the origin of biblical prophecies, their literary presentation and characteristics (1914) Prophets: history of Bible prophecies and their literary presentation and...
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Kirsopp Lake - "and in a few cases the ink has eaten through the vellum so as to leave holes"

CARM https://forums.carm.org/threads/codex-sinaiticus-and-constantine-simonides-the-benedict-identity-fraud-theft.15475/post-1223054 1911 p. xvi Many of the leaves are so thin that the writing from the other side is sometimes so plainly visible as to become confusing, and in a few cases the...
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Simonides alludes to the basic palaeographic truth - terminus ante quem - ink upon vellum

Elliott p. 61 I learned the art of preparing suitable materials for writing — the proper ink, the making of bone pens, the polishing of the skins, the cleaning by chemicals of a few leaves soiled by time, the careful and proper division of the columns, the adoption of the style of writing, and...
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'old parchment becomes rigid and cannot be folded and unfolded'
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...-rigid-and-cannot-be-folded-and-unfolded.203/

The Fountain Pen Network - Sinaiticus changes ink ‘science’
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...etwork-sinaiticus-changes-ink-‘science’.3009/

quotes from the British Library that should really make you question Sinaiticus as 4th century - parchment "science" changes for Sinaiticus
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...parchment-science-changes-for-sinaiticus.723/

Sinaiticus in a scientific paper about parchment - Transformation of Collagen into Gelatine
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...transformation-of-collagen-into-gelatine.586/

https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...science-requires-palaeographic-vigilance.255/

Sinaiticus 'science' - learning to read between the lines

Many samples can be given, let's start with this one, that also has a picture of the huge unexplained (by traditional Sinaiticus science... easy to explain when the ms. is artificially coloured) colour variances. Parchment Assessment of the Codex Sinaiticus Gavin Moorhead What can be said...
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compromising parchment science and professional integrity
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...hment-science-and-professional-integrity.252/

https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...tion-are-not-hands-on-manuscript-science.207/

Note : Kathryn Rudy and Dot mentioned in Facebook discussion

https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...nts-on-research-and-condition-and-colour.191/


Jacob W. Peterson - "physical condition should play little part in dating a manuscript."
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...-play-little-part-in-dating-a-manuscript.685/

https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/a-document-is-no-older-than-the-materials-used.214/

https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...ine-age-and-authenticity-of-a-manuscript.221/

improper ms dating will create circularity errors in the vellum and ink sciences

See this problem addressed here: An Iron Gall Inquiry http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/267183-an-iron-gall-inquiry/?p=3583308 Pure Bible Forum a document is no older than the materials used https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php/threads/b.214 wip
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Rene Larsen

Open letter
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
TwoNoteableCorruptions said:
Remember Steven!
Pliny said the following for a reason!
Natural History
Book 13, Chapter 70, Section 21
"BY WHICH [i.e. PARCHMENT] THE IMMORTALITY OF MAN IS ENSURED"
The Romans knew the phenomenal durability of parchment!
Which you obviously don't...
Flexibility and age is not necessarily a problem.
Click to expand...

What a TNC stumble-bumble!

TNC totally flunks Context 101.

The context here is papyrus:

Handbook of Greek and Latin palaeography (1903)
by Edward Maunde Thompson. 1840-1929
books.google.com

Handbook of Greek and Latin Palæography

books.google.com
archive.org

Handbook of Greek and Latin palaeography : Thompson, Edward Maunde, Sir, 1840-1929 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

List of principal palaeographical works used or referred to: p. [327]-333
archive.org

Page 29 | Handbook of Greek and Latin palaeography / by Edward Maunde Thompson. | Making of America Books | University of Michigan Library Digital Collections

quod.lib.umich.edu

It is probable that papyrus was imported into Italy already manufactured; and it is doubtful whether any native plant grew in that country. Strabo says that it was found in Lake Trasimene and other lakes of Etruria; but the accuracy of this statement has been disputed, Still, it is a fact that there was a manufacture of this writing material carried on in Rome, the charta Fanniana being an instance; but it has been asserted that this industry was confined to the re-making of imported material. The more brittle condition of the Latin papyri, as compared with the Greek papyri, found at Herculaneum, has been ascribed to the detrimental effect of this re-manufacture.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
We know, however, that papyrus was plentiful in Rome under the Empire. In fact, it was the common writing material among the Romans at that period, and became so indispensable that, on a temporary failure of the supply in the reign of Tiberius, there was danger of a popular tumult. 4 Pliny also, Nat, Hist, xiii. 11, refers to its high social value in the words: “papyri natura dicetur, cum chartae usu maxime humanitas vitae constet, certe memoria,”and again he describes it as a thing “qua constat immortalitas hominum.”
 
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