Steven Avery
Administrator
leon1 - Lemovicensis - pro
leon 2 - margin
leon 2 - margin
León palimpsest
- Thread starter Steven Avery
- Start date
Steven Avery
Administrator
LEON MS
Lemovicensis (leon1) - yes, in varied/mutilated form .. Scrivener
(Placed under Vulgate by Waltz - L = Lemovicensis IXc "Mixed" text, containing a part of 1 John 5:7)
Maynard p. 51
923 AD.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BFtQOr7zsnYC&pg=PA87
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
leon 2 - margin only ("Old Latin being replaced by the Vulgate" - Scrivener)
930 AD -
Maynard p. 51
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
These are pretty much agreed upon, the issues are more on category.
Lemovicensis (leon1) - yes, in varied/mutilated form .. Scrivener
(Placed under Vulgate by Waltz - L = Lemovicensis IXc "Mixed" text, containing a part of 1 John 5:7)
Maynard p. 51
923 AD.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BFtQOr7zsnYC&pg=PA87
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
leon 2 - margin only ("Old Latin being replaced by the Vulgate" - Scrivener)
930 AD -
Maynard p. 51
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
These are pretty much agreed upon, the issues are more on category.
Steven Avery
Administrator
CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-37#post-744793
The contras actually give the early date. Are they misled AV defenders?
TNC
The Fathers True Monarchy (JW Matt)
https://thefathersmonarchy.wordpres...comma-johanneum-clement-of-alexandria-part-1/
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-37#post-744793
The contras actually give the early date. Are they misled AV defenders?
TNC
The Fathers True Monarchy (JW Matt)
https://thefathersmonarchy.wordpres...comma-johanneum-clement-of-alexandria-part-1/
Steven Avery
Administrator
CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-744822
Here is Grantley McDonald:
Biblical Criticism in Early Modern Europe (2016)
Grantley McDonald
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q6BODAAAQBAJ&pg=PA5
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-744822
Here is Grantley McDonald:
Biblical Criticism in Early Modern Europe (2016)
Grantley McDonald
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q6BODAAAQBAJ&pg=PA5
Last edited:
Steven Avery
Administrator
Houghton
olarship.com/view/10.1093/acprofso/9780198744733.001.0001/acprof-9780198744733-chapter-10
León, Archivo Catedralicio, 15
VL 67
Palimpsestus Legionensis. Remains of a Latin Bible (epcar).
Copied in the seventh century, possibly in Toledo. Palimpsested in the tenth century with Rufinus’ translation of Eusebius’ Historia ecclesiastica in Visigothic minuscule. Spanish half-uncial script.
The original manuscript consisted of around 322 folios, of which 48 remain (original size at least 48x35 cm). Two columns of 71–6 lines (36½x28½ cm). Parchment; black ink.
The New Testament portions remaining are Romans 11:2–16:6; 2 Corinthians 1:1–7:4; 12:18–end; Galatians 1:1–3:29; 1 Thessalonians 2:16–2 Thessalonians 3:2; James 4:4–1 Peter 3:14; 1 John 1:5–3 John 10; Acts 8:27–11:13, 14:21–17:25. The Catholic Epistles and parts of Acts are Old Latin, with different text-types in different portions (Acts 15:6–12 and 26–38 are very early, with similarities to Cyprian); Paul is a good Vulgate text.
Images: (CLA XI 1636 and 1637).
Editions: Fischer 1963a (Acts), Berger 1893:9–10 (1 John). Cited in Vetus Latina, and Stuttgart Vulgate (l; Acts and Paul).
Further literature: Berger 1893:8–10, 384; Thiele 1956:16*–17*, 84*ff.; Fischer 1963a [1986:74–105], 1963b [1985:73–8]; Bogaert 2012:74–5. TM 67802.
olarship.com/view/10.1093/acprofso/9780198744733.001.0001/acprof-9780198744733-chapter-10
León, Archivo Catedralicio, 15
VL 67
Palimpsestus Legionensis. Remains of a Latin Bible (epcar).
Copied in the seventh century, possibly in Toledo. Palimpsested in the tenth century with Rufinus’ translation of Eusebius’ Historia ecclesiastica in Visigothic minuscule. Spanish half-uncial script.
The original manuscript consisted of around 322 folios, of which 48 remain (original size at least 48x35 cm). Two columns of 71–6 lines (36½x28½ cm). Parchment; black ink.
The New Testament portions remaining are Romans 11:2–16:6; 2 Corinthians 1:1–7:4; 12:18–end; Galatians 1:1–3:29; 1 Thessalonians 2:16–2 Thessalonians 3:2; James 4:4–1 Peter 3:14; 1 John 1:5–3 John 10; Acts 8:27–11:13, 14:21–17:25. The Catholic Epistles and parts of Acts are Old Latin, with different text-types in different portions (Acts 15:6–12 and 26–38 are very early, with similarities to Cyprian); Paul is a good Vulgate text.
Images: (CLA XI 1636 and 1637).
Editions: Fischer 1963a (Acts), Berger 1893:9–10 (1 John). Cited in Vetus Latina, and Stuttgart Vulgate (l; Acts and Paul).
Further literature: Berger 1893:8–10, 384; Thiele 1956:16*–17*, 84*ff.; Fischer 1963a [1986:74–105], 1963b [1985:73–8]; Bogaert 2012:74–5. TM 67802.
Last edited:
Steven Avery
Administrator
Witness of God is Greater
Includes Wikipedia
HIT:
● [1 Jn 5:6-8] This is the one who is coming in water and Spirit and blood, Jesus Christ and not so great as in water only but in water and blood and the Spirit is the witness because the Spirit is the truth Since there are three that are witnessing in earth the Spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are one because there are three that are witnessing in heaven the Father and the Word and the Spirit Holy and these three are one in Christ Jesus.
(Translated by M.A. Ferrando)
○ Latin: Hic est qui venit per aquam et SPM et sanguinem IHS XRS et non tantum in aqua sed in aqua et
sanguine et SPS est testimonium quia SPS est veritas quoniam tres sunt qui testimonium dant in terra
SPS et aqua et sanguis et tres sunt qui testimonium dicunt in caelo pater et verbum et SPS SCS et hi tres
unum sunt in XPO IHU si testimonium hominum accipimus testimonium DI qui testi- ficatus est de filio
suo. (Transcribed by Berger, Histoire de la Vulgate, 1893, p. 10)
Includes Wikipedia
HIT:
● [1 Jn 5:6-8] This is the one who is coming in water and Spirit and blood, Jesus Christ and not so great as in water only but in water and blood and the Spirit is the witness because the Spirit is the truth Since there are three that are witnessing in earth the Spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are one because there are three that are witnessing in heaven the Father and the Word and the Spirit Holy and these three are one in Christ Jesus.
(Translated by M.A. Ferrando)
○ Latin: Hic est qui venit per aquam et SPM et sanguinem IHS XRS et non tantum in aqua sed in aqua et
sanguine et SPS est testimonium quia SPS est veritas quoniam tres sunt qui testimonium dant in terra
SPS et aqua et sanguis et tres sunt qui testimonium dicunt in caelo pater et verbum et SPS SCS et hi tres
unum sunt in XPO IHU si testimonium hominum accipimus testimonium DI qui testi- ficatus est de filio
suo. (Transcribed by Berger, Histoire de la Vulgate, 1893, p. 10)
Last edited:
Steven Avery
Administrator
CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-745117
León Palimpsest (Palimpsestus Legionensis) (601-700 AD)
The Latin New Testament: A Guide to Its Early History, Texts, and Manuscripts (2016)
Hugh Houghton
https://books.google.com/books?id=CXQqCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA240
[H.A.G. Houghton: Leon Palimpsest]
VL 67 León, Archivo Catedralicio, 15 Palimpsestus Legionensis. Remains of a Latin Bible (epcar). Copied in the seventh century, possibly in Toledo. Palimpsested in the tenth century with Rufinus’ translation of Eusebius’ Historia ecclesiastica in Visigothic minuscule. Spanish half-uncial script. The original manuscript consisted of around 322 folios, of which 48 remain (original size at least 48x35 cm). Two columns of 71–6 lines (36½x28½ cm). Parchment; black ink.
(Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 240)
The Latin New Testament: A Guide to Its Early History, Texts, and Manuscripts (2016)
CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-745117
Hugh Houghton
https://books.google.com/books?id=CXQqCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA63
[H.A.G. Houghton]
A different combination of Old Latin and the Vulgate (of Jerome) is seen in VL 67 (the Leon Palimpsest). This is the oldest surviving Latin biblical pandect, a large format manuscript copied in Toledo in the seventh century but re-used three centuries later. The surviving pages show that, while its text of the Pauline Epistles is Vulgate, the Catholic Epistles and part of Acts have an Old Latin affiliation with similarities to Cyprian and [PAGE 64] Tyconius, as well as the fifth century Portuguese writer Orosius (Contra Varimadum).
(Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 63-64)
==================================
Thus the Old Latin connection looks solid, and the Leon Palimpsest is even in support of the Cyprian usage of the heavenly witnesses!
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-745117
León Palimpsest (Palimpsestus Legionensis) (601-700 AD)
The Latin New Testament: A Guide to Its Early History, Texts, and Manuscripts (2016)
Hugh Houghton
https://books.google.com/books?id=CXQqCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA240
[H.A.G. Houghton: Leon Palimpsest]
VL 67 León, Archivo Catedralicio, 15 Palimpsestus Legionensis. Remains of a Latin Bible (epcar). Copied in the seventh century, possibly in Toledo. Palimpsested in the tenth century with Rufinus’ translation of Eusebius’ Historia ecclesiastica in Visigothic minuscule. Spanish half-uncial script. The original manuscript consisted of around 322 folios, of which 48 remain (original size at least 48x35 cm). Two columns of 71–6 lines (36½x28½ cm). Parchment; black ink.
(Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 240)
The Latin New Testament: A Guide to Its Early History, Texts, and Manuscripts (2016)
CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/syr...e-line-and-the-comma.9270/page-38#post-745117
Hugh Houghton
https://books.google.com/books?id=CXQqCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA63
[H.A.G. Houghton]
A different combination of Old Latin and the Vulgate (of Jerome) is seen in VL 67 (the Leon Palimpsest). This is the oldest surviving Latin biblical pandect, a large format manuscript copied in Toledo in the seventh century but re-used three centuries later. The surviving pages show that, while its text of the Pauline Epistles is Vulgate, the Catholic Epistles and part of Acts have an Old Latin affiliation with similarities to Cyprian and [PAGE 64] Tyconius, as well as the fifth century Portuguese writer Orosius (Contra Varimadum).
(Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 63-64)
==================================
Thus the Old Latin connection looks solid, and the Leon Palimpsest is even in support of the Cyprian usage of the heavenly witnesses!