Josephus, AD 70, the fall of Jerusalem and preterism - abomination of desolation

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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Post by John2 » Sat Mar 28, 2026 5:01 pm


I've always taken Mk. 13:14 as referring to what Josephus says in War 6.6.1:

And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. And now all the soldiers had such vast quantities of the spoils which they had gotten by plunder, that in Syria a pound weight of gold was sold for half its former value.
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Mk. 3:14: So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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Consider also what Jesus says in Mk. 13:17 ("How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers!") and his reference to wars and famines in 13:7-8 in light of what Josephus says in War 6.3.4:

She [Mary] then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, "O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves. This famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us. Yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets, and a by-word to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews." As soon as she had said this, she slew her son, and then roasted him, and eat the one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed.
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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GakuseiDon » Sat Mar 28, 2026 10:01 pm

Josephus believed that the Jewish people had already profaned the Temple, causing God to reject Jerusalem and the Temple. And that God is now settled in Italy. In Antiquities of the Jews Ch 8.5, Josephus describes why God rejected them:

"... the robbers ... slew certain of their own enemies, and were subservient to other men for money; and slew others, not only in remote parts of the city, but in the temple itself also; for they had the boldness to murder men there, without thinking of the impiety of which they were guilty. And this seems to me to have been the reason why God, out of his hatred of these men's wickedness, rejected our city; and as for the temple, he no longer esteemed it sufficiently pure for him to inhabit therein, but brought the Romans upon us".
Josephus reports that, consequently, there is a story of God abandoning the Temple. This is at the end of a series of signs of the impending doom of Jerusalem and the Jews. I've left out some of the prodigies listed by Josephus leading up to God apparently leaving the Temple. In The Jewish War, Chap 5.3:

Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner (22) [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them.
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Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."
Finally, Josephus, when urging fellow Jews at the seige of Jerusalem to surrender, claims that God has "now settled in Italy":
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/comp ... vi.ix.html

Besides, men may well enough grudge at the dishonor of owning ignoble masters over them, but ought not to do so to those who have all things under their command; for what part of the world is there that hath escaped the Romans, unless it be such as are of no use for violent heat, or for violent cold? And evident it is that fortune is on all hands gone over to them; and that God, when he had gone round the nations with this dominion, is now settled in Italy.

So I don't think that Josephus regarded the Temple being profaned by the Romans, because in his opinion it had already been done by the Jews.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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The Temple was already rubble. Perhaps Bar Kochba wanted to rebuild it, but it never happened.

Biblically and historically the abomination of desolation points to AD 70, when they fled to Pella.

Matthew 24:15 (AV)
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Mark 13:14 (AV)
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
standing where it ought not,
(let him that readeth understand,)
then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel 9:27 (AV)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 (AV)
And arms shall stand on his part,
and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily sacrifice,
and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 (AV)
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=205690#p205690


the temple was profaned by the Roman armies​

by Steven Avery » Sun Apr 05, 2026 10:35 pm
Hi DCHindley,

Here is one salient verse omitted.

Luke 21:20 (AV)
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies,
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

This tells us that the abomination of desolation is fulfilled by the pagan ensigns on the Roman army destroying the Temple, which was a 2-step procedure AD 66 (Cestius Gallus) and AD 70 (Titus), allowing lots of time to pack up and go.

It would be good to have the sections of Eusebius and Paulus Orosius.

An interesting book is:

The destruction of Jerusalem an absolute and irresistible proof of the divine origin of Christianity (1805)
George Peter Holford (1767-1839)
https://books.google.com/books?id=pOhbAAAAQAAJ
https://preteristarchives.org/george-peter-holford/

You can claim that the earlier books were clearer, lots of confusion came into eschatology from Darby, Scofiedl, et al. well as by the late dating of Revelation to Domitian.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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John2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2026 2:22 pm Maybe it's a stretch, and I'm not saying I agree with it, I just wonder if such an interpretation of Jerusalem being "compassed with [Zealot] armies" could work (or in any event, I'm curious to see Adam's take of Lk. 21:20).
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And I find the 2-step Roman armies to be much simpler.
AD 66 (Cestius Gallus) and AD 70 (Titus), allowing lots of time to pack up and go.

Studies in the Life of Christ (1938)
Rupert Clinton Foster (1888-1970)
http://books.google.com/books?id=Q3NiZ99U6YMC&pg=PA1192
https://www.sermonindex.net/books/foste ... hrist/124/

Abomination of Desolation
A study of Daniel 8:13; Daniel 11:31; Daniel 12:11 will show that the abomination of desolation was to be something which was an abomination because it desecrated the temple, and “was an abomination of desolation” because it would leave the city desolate. “And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt-offering, and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate” (Daniel 11:31); “And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days” (Daniel 12:11). Various specific facts or events associated with the approaching siege of Jerusalem are selected by various commentators as being the exact fulfillment of what was meant by the abomination of desolation, but Luke gives the key to the interpretation of the prophecy by showing that Jesus also said: “But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand” (Luke 21:20). The Greek has a present participle “being compassed,” so that the Christians are warned to flee as they see the hostile armies closing in on the city; after the city had been “compassed,” it would have been too late. Their work of evangelization which had been so fruitful in the capital is now to be made impossible by violence; they are to flee to other places with their precious message.

Many Jews fled into the capital for refuge as outlying cities and fortresses were reduced to ruins. But the Christians gave heed to these warnings of Jesus and fled out of Jerusalem into the mountains and the open country, across the Jordan to safety. Eusebius declares: “The people in the church in Jerusalem being commanded to leave and dwell in a city of Peraea called Pella, in accordance with a certain oracle which was uttered before the war to the approved men there by way of revelation” (H. E. III:5, 3). He evidently is giving a free reference to this prediction of Jesus to the apostles, and records the fact that the Christians all escaped from the city. Josephus seems to refer to a general exodus at the time of the flight of the Christians when he writes: Many of the most eminent of the Jews swam away from the city as from a ship when it was going to sink” (Wars 2:20:1). Since Cestus Gallus started to lay siege to Jerusalem and then retired without any evident reason, it was probably at this juncture that the Christians fled. Plummer remarks that the Christians may have fled to other places also, but the flight to Pella, recorded by Eusebius, illustrates the way the Christians obeyed the warning of Christ. He points out that if this prediction in the Gospel narratives had been invented by Christians after the fall of Jerusalem, its wording would have been made definite instead of general, to fit this historic incident of their escape. Eusebius quotes the prophecy as definite, but the words of Jesus are indefinite. This is very strong evidence of their genuineness. It is also plain that if the Synoptic Gospels had been written after a.d. 70 as the radical scholars claim, then the writers most certainly would have cited the fact that the predictions of Jesus covering the fall of Jerusalem had been fulfilled, as Luke does in regard to the famine predicted by Agabus (Acts 11:28). (continues)
 
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