Taking the Lord’s Name in Vain: What It Actually Means
by Eli Thomas
https://www.facebook.com/groups/homesteadheritagecontacts/posts/3686842961614494/
Vain Repetition --- in yahweh-worship
who is Eli Thomas?
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Missions ? In a wacky Homestead Heritage way
http://www.facebook.com/groups/homesteadheritagecontacts/posts/3692314527734004/
Adam Alexander
Steven Avery I’m no defender of Homestead, but mocking people Jesus bled for isn’t bold it’s blasphemous. You say they don’t know the Gospel? Maybe not. But the way you’re talking, I have to ask—do you?
“If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.”
—1 Corinthians 13:1
You’re so busy swinging at their deception, you’ve slipped into your own, the deception of pride.
“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
—James 4:6
Jesus never said, “You will know them by how hard they hit their enemies.” He said:
“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
—John 13:35
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander -
Galatians 4:16 (AV)
Am I therefore become your enemy,
because I tell you the truth?
Read full chapter
If you believe you’ve been rescued by grace, then speak like someone who remembers the pit they were pulled from—not like someone who enjoys watching others fall in.
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery You asked me to read Galatians 4 so I have and it actually rebukes the exact thing you’re doing right now—Paul starts the chapter by saying we are no longer slaves under the elemental principles of the world but sons and heirs through Christ and then he grieves that the Galatians are turning back to bondage and legalism just like you’re doing when you make perfect pronunciation or linguistic form a test of salvation Paul literally says “How is it that you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elements” then he reminds them that when he first preached they didn’t care about his appearance or credentials but received him as a messenger of God and then he says “Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?” which you quoted but you’re misusing it because he was correcting them gently as one who loved them not flexing scholarship or using sarcasm he said “I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you” which is the opposite tone of your mocking comments and spiritual arrogance and then he ends the chapter with the story of Hagar and Sarah showing that those who cling to law and slavery are cast out while the children of promise walk in freedom—so if you really want to live out Galatians 4 stop acting like the name must be perfectly uttered to be valid and start pointing people to the grace of Jesus who made Himself known in every language and culture and whose power never depended on vowel placement but on the cross.
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander - "If you believe you’ve been rescued by grace, then speak like someone who remembers the pit they were pulled from—not like someone who enjoys watching others fall in."
There is no joy in watching the yahweh-worship abomination. I have laboured to help the Homestead gentlemen to become clean before the Lord Jesus for 20 years, the first decade privately in direct contacts with Joel, Gary, Asi, Barry, Denny, Blair and Regina et al.
It is a spiritual principality, and causes the yahweh-pushers to go a little bonkers.
Adam Alexander
Steven Avery Are you a Christian?
I mean that seriously—not as an insult, but as a question. Because when I read the way you speak about people Jesus died for, I have to ask: does your life reflect the humility, mercy, and love that Christ calls His followers to?
You say you’ve “labored for 20 years” to help the men at Homestead. But where is the fruit of that labor? Because what I see in your words isn’t the Spirit’s fruit—it’s spiritual superiority, mockery, and self-importance. Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:16). So I’m asking: what are yours? Is it ridicule? Is it slander? Is it this obsession over a vowel that you treat like it determines someone’s salvation?
You’re claiming Yahweh is a principality, yet the Hebrew Tetragrammaton—the name of God—appears over 6,800 times in the Old Testament. That’s not a mistake. It’s not a demonic deception. That’s the Word of God. And early Christians, including Hellenistic Jews, used ΙΑΩ (Iao), not “Jehovah,” which is a much later hybrid with medieval origins. Are all of them deceived? Were the apostles “bonkers” too?
You treat this pronunciation debate like it’s the gospel itself. But the gospel is this: “While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8). It’s not about a name you think you’ve pronounced right. It’s about a man who took nails in His hands to reconcile broken people to God.
Paul said: “Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.” (1 Corinthians 8:1). So tell me—who are you building up? Because from what I see, your knowledge is puffing you up and tearing others down.
You might not “enjoy” watching people fall, but you don’t sound like someone who mourns either. You sound like someone who stands over the wreckage and says, “I told you so.”
I’m not defending Homestead’s abuse or error. They have caused deep pain to many, and it deserves exposure. But when your “discernment” turns into bitterness, and your “truth” leaves no room for grace, you’re no better than the system you critique.
So again, plainly:
Are you following Jesus—or just fighting battles you’ve made into your own gospel?
Because Paul said it straight:
“If I have all knowledge…and have not love, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:2).
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander - - "a much later hybrid with medieval origins"
Nahhh.
Remember, I showed you c. 20 theophoric names, with Jeho-, that prove that Jehovah is ancient. You did not respond.
Beyond that we have the clear words of c. 20 Hebraic writers acknowledging the Jehovah pronunciation, 0 for the creepster,
Beyond that, the full vowels were left in 2,000 Masoretic Text mss.
There is more, but that is a start.
Steven Avery
More specifically to this conversation, have you ever been in the moaning and shouting Yahweh-worship prayer rooms?
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander - "You might not “enjoy” watching people fall, but you don’t sound like someone who mourns either. You sound like someone who stands over the wreckage and says, “I told you so.”
This is all psychobabble nonsense.
You can do better.
I have rejoiced over and with my brothers and sisters, formerly of Homestead, who have come to much sounder doctrinal and life perspectives, including:
a) having and reading the pure and perfect Bible
b) totally rejecting the yahweh-jupiter-devil
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Steven Avery
read full chapter was a slip from cut-and-paste - Facebook edits can be difficult with a tablet (now back on puter)
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Adam Alexander
Steven Avery let’s be real about the facts here. The “Jeho-” in names like Jehoshaphat or Jehoiakim doesn’t prove the pronunciation “Jehovah” any more than “Yahu” in names like Isaiah or Jeremiah proves “Yahuah.” These are theophoric elements, not full name pronunciations.
As for the Masoretic texts—you’re right that they have vowel points, but those vowel points were deliberately inserted to remind readers to say “Adonai,” not to preserve the original pronunciation of YHWH. The Jews had long stopped saying the Name aloud out of reverence by the time those vowel systems were added.
And the 20 Hebrew scholars you’re referencing? Many of them were simply following that tradition of substitution. There’s no early manuscript that records “Jehovah” as the original pronunciation—it’s a Latinized hybrid from the Middle Ages. That’s not controversial anymore, it’s well-documented history.
Even Vasileiadis and other scholars clearly show that ΙΑΩ (Iao) and Yahweh were used far earlier. “Jehovah” doesn’t appear in any early Jewish or Christian text—it shows up after 1100 A.D.
If you’re going to accuse others of spreading error, at least be accurate with the history.
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander -
" the pronunciation “Jehovah” any more than “Yahu” in names like Isaiah or Jeremiah proves “Yahuah.”
Here I would suggest you read and learn from Nehemia Gordon.
Hebrew Voices #106 – Why it’s YEhovah, but HalleluYAh
Facebook, Youtube and nehemiaswall.com and I mirrored the transcript here in post #2
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/yah-and-yahu-suffix-halleluyah-theophoric-elements-from-what-source.5302/
Wonderful technical explanation from Samuel David Luzzatto in 1834.
I am curious to see if you are really earnestly trying to learn the truth.
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery calling genuine concern for others “psychobabble” doesn’t make it less valid. Dismissing questions about the fruit of your tone and approach is exactly the issue. You say you’ve rejoiced with former Homestead members—but I don’t hear rejoicing. I hear obsession, condemnation, and pride.
The Bible says, “If someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1). What part of your speech sounds like gentle restoration?
You preach about purity and truth, but Jesus said “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:35). That includes how you speak, how you carry yourself, and how you treat people who are wrong—because we’ve all been wrong.
You are not the gatekeeper of who is deceived and who is not. God’s Spirit convicts, not our insults. You say you’ve labored 20 years to help them—but what’s the point if it’s not marked by the Spirit’s fruit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control? (Galatians 5:22–23)
This isn’t about “team Yahweh” or “team Jehovah.” It’s about whether you are lifting Christ or lifting yourself. “Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.” (1 Corinthians 8:1). You’ve got plenty of knowledge—but what are you building?
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander -
" the pronunciation “Jehovah” any more than “Yahu” in names like Isaiah or Jeremiah proves “Yahuah.”
Here I would suggest you read and learn from Nehemia Gordon.
Hebrew Voices #106 – Why it’s YEhovah, but HalleluYAh
Facebook, Youtube and nehemiaswall.com and I mirrored the transcript here in post #2
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/yah-and-yahu-suffix-halleluyah-theophoric-elements-from-what-source.5302/
Wonderful technical explanation from Samuel David Luzzatto in 1834.
I am curious to see if you are really earnestly trying to learn the truth.
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander - "And the 20 Hebrew scholars you’re referencing? Many of them were simply following that tradition of substitution. "
Here you are simply fabricating to try to hand-wave incredible evidences, since the rabbis and Hebrew scholars knew the true name, passed down, and the proper vowels.
=======================
Show me that you even know what one of these Hebraic sources, consistent over the centuries, actually said.
e.g. start with Jacob ben Moses Bachrach (Shadai) (1824-1896)
Adam Alexander
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...m-albright-frank-moore-cross.5303/#post-22715
attempt placed on other page
https://www.facebook.com/groups/hom...26157732841&reply_comment_id=3702269830071807
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery I’m glad you brought up Jacob ben Moses Bachrach, 1824 to 1896, because he’s a key example of someone defending Yehovah based on Masoretic tradition, not ancient pronunciation, his position represents a late stream of rabbinic thought, not original vocalization, now since you asked if I know any Hebraic sources, let’s go through the actual scholars who have weighed in on the Tetragrammaton and vowel usage, Nehemia Gordon, born in the 1970s, supports Yehovah based on manuscript vowel patterns, but admits it’s a result of later scribal substitution, Pavlos Vasileiadis, born in 1974, documents Yahweh’s early use in Judeo-Greek texts, Frank Shaw shows ΙΑΩ as an early Jewish pronunciation of the Name, dating back to the 1st century, Rotherham, 1823 to 1910, noted the shift toward Jehovah in English despite Hebrew roots suggesting Yahweh, Charles Pfeiffer, 1902 to 1982, and Bruce Metzger, 1914 to 2007, affirmed the Greek transliterations IAO and IAOUE pointed to Yahweh, Thomas Römer, born in 1958, supports Yahû or Yahwîh based on inscriptions, Max Reisel, 1913 to 2000, proposed Yehuàh or Yahwàh based on poetic structures, Paul Jouon, 1871 to 1942, with Muraoka, confirms Yahweh from grammar analysis, Emanuel Tov, born in 1941, confirms Yahweh consistency in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Sigmund Mowinckel, 1884 to 1965, described Yahweh cultic origins in Psalms, George Wesley Buchanan, 1921 to 2019, studied divine name preservation in LXX fragments, Adriaan Reland, 1676 to 1718, was one of the first Western scholars to document Yahweh from early sources, Avraham Gileadi, born 1950s, favors Yahweh in his Isaiah scholarship, Arnold Ehrlich, 1848 to 1919, analyzed Semitic vowel traditions in favor of Yahweh, Angelo Traina, 1889 to 1971, preferred Jehovah but admitted its hybrid origin, and of course the Masoretes from the 7th to 11th centuries inserted the vowels of Adonai to avoid pronunciation of the sacred Name, if you’re going to reject all of this as fabrication you’re dismissing centuries of scholarship, including your own source Jacob Bachrach, whose work was a defense of a late tradition not the restoration of the earliest one, I’ve answered you, now you answer mine.
Steven Avery
Adam Alexander -
" Jacob ben Moses Bachrach .... defending Yehovah based on Masoretic tradition ... defense of a late tradition "
Who documents this "late (Masoretic) tradition", the specific sources?
Show us the Masoretic sources that Bachrach relied upon.
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery Jacob ben Moses Bachrach explicitly defended the pronunciation Yehovah using the vowel points preserved in the Masoretic Text. He did not view the qere perpetuum as a late corruption, but as a deliberate preservation by the Masoretes based on ancient oral tradition.
His primary sources were the Masoretic manuscripts themselves, like the Leningrad Codex and Aleppo Codex, which consistently vowel the divine name as יְהֹוָה Yehovah, not Yahweh.
Bachrach also referenced earlier grammarians and Masoretes like Aaron ben Asher, and he leaned on the diqduqei ha-te’amim, grammatical marks and accent traditions, to support the shewa, cholam, and qamats of Yehovah.
If you want a list of what he relied on:
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery You say Pavlos “concludes totally in favor of Jehovah and against the Yahweh blunder” on page 18, but his actual statement is more nuanced. He describes Jehowah/Jehovah as the “natural reading” of the divine name and criticizes those labeling it “impossible” or “monstrous” . That isn’t an endorsement of Yahweh or a rejection of scholarship—it’s acknowledging Jehovah’s historical usage and defending it against unwarranted attacks.
He doesn’t dismiss Yahweh as a “blunder”—he simply shows that Jehovah has credibility in Masoretic tradition and Greek reception.
Also, Vasileiadis discusses Ἰαώ (Iao) and the early use of the tetragrammaton in Greek manuscripts through the Hellenistic era . That supports the idea that vocalization was fluid and context-dependent, not rigidly tied to a single pronunciation.
In short, Steve, you’re sketching an either/or caricature—Jehovah is valid historically, Yahweh isn’t. But Vasileiadis shows both names appeared across time and cultures, not that one is a “blunder” and the other universally “correct.” Your reading oversimplifies and misrepresents his careful academic position.
Adam Alexander
Rising contributor
Steven Avery I don’t think the name you pray to is what matters most, I don’t personally use Jehovah or Yahweh when I pray, but I do read the scholarship and sources people quote, and honestly, Steve, your take isn’t accurate, Vasileiadis doesn’t “totally conclude in favor of Jehovah” the way you’re claiming, he defends the legitimacy of its use and critiques how harshly it’s been dismissed, but he also clearly traces early forms like Iao and Yahweh in Jewish-Greek texts and admits the historical complexity, so if we’re being honest, your summary flattens that nuance just to score points in a debate, that’s not what real study looks like.
• The Masorah itself.
• Leningrad and Aleppo Codices.
• Radak and Ibn Ezra’s writings, which he critiques.
• Tiberian Masoretes, 8th to 10th century sources.
So yes, his defense is literally rooted in Masoretic sources.
