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Thread: baptism as a pledge of the old nature

  1. Default baptism as a pledge of the old nature

    "We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus and that therefore takes place in the name of Jesus."

    What We Believe
    http://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/
    A totally unChristian, even anti-Christian doctrine, one that is unique to Homestead Heritage. Recently added, as there was nothing even remotely of this nature in the 1970s into the 1980s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
    How could any real Christian talk about pledging the old nature? And this is not an offhand slip, it is in a carefully written statement of faith. The moorings of Homestead Heritage were totally shaken by their Bible confusions and yahwehism.

  2. Default

    A bit more from August 24, 2016:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waco-tx/T58JCMP5PC5AGLDDN/p376

    "—We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus and that therefore takes place in the name of Jesus. Moreover, this pledge is therefore one of submission to a discipleship that leads us in love into an increasing sacrifice of our lapsed nature according to our pledge through baptism into Christ’s own sacrificial death ..."

    This is a fellowship that edits and proofs and re-edits and re-proofs, and this is their one public statement of faith. A typo? Unlikely.

    Note that this "pledge" and "nature" component continues from:

    "pledge of the old nature"

    to .. "an increasing sacrifice of our lapsed nature"

    And if it is a typo, they could correct it tomorrow, it has been up on the site at least 9 months. And I see the section not as having a typo, but as demonstrating doctrinal and scriptural difficulties.

    Now, very simply, if it is not a typo, does this make any sense, scripturally and spiritually?

    "... believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus...."

    ==========

    Later, we may go into how Homestead Heritage has sort of incorporated the Anabaptist idea, e.g. of Balthasar Hubmaier,(c. 1480- 1528) of water baptism as a pledge and confession, unto God and the community of faith.

    One positive element of this was begun in Colorado when a spoken testimony of faith by the believer, similar to Acts 8:37, was made a necessary component of being accepted for water baptism.

    ==========

    Here is an interesting question about the section.

    Did you notice the total absence of any reference to remission of sins in water baptism?
    The quality of the research and scholarship varies wildly. It is certainly puzzling why they would put a "pledge of the old nature" on their current public SOF on the net, that does indicate a very fundamental difficulty in dealing with Christian doctrine. Even after (or partly because of?) adding a Baylor seminarian or two. Yet, how could even a seminarian come up with that doctrinal absurdity?
    A bit more from July 25, 2017:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waco...PC5AGLDDN/p439


    we can use the laughable absurdity of a "pledge of the old nature" in water baptism as a convenient example of how far astray they have gone.... the absurd and indefensible concept (and spiritually sick, to be frank and clear) that water baptism involves a "pledge of the old nature". Ugh. What a doctrinal abomination, and blared out right on their public statement of faith. It helps to show that the doctrinal emperor is sans clothes.

    ...

    Returning to the Homestead Heritage absurdity:

    "...pledge of the old nature..."

    This is expressed publicly, as a carefully formulated belief, approved by the full ministry, in:

    Homestead Heritage - What We Believe
    http://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/

    Wait! The old nature does not have any value to be given as a pledge. A pledge is something of value given as security, something that you hope not to lose.

    "a thing that is given as security for the fulfillment of a contract or the payment of a debt and is liable to forfeiture in the event of failure."
    https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+pledge&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

    ... reading from Romans 6 today in some devotional time. From the pure scriptures, the Authorized Version. Compare the pure word of God, the Holy Bible, with the absurdity put forth as Homestead Heritage doctrine.

    Romans 6:1-6 (AV)
    What shall we say then?
    Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    God forbid.
    How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
    that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
    even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
    we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
    that the body of sin might be destroyed,
    that henceforth we should not serve sin.


    For true Christians, that body of sin, the old nature, is to be destroyed. Far away as the east is to the west. It is not to be offered up as a pledge, a thing of value.

    And I believe that God allowed this Homestead Heritage doctrinal blunder in order to make it simpler for anyone, even outside of apostolic doctrine and authority questions and name of Jesus issues, to understand how far astray Homestead Heritage has gone. How they have left Christian faith. This nonsense of making a "pledge of the old nature" could have only arisen after they had shipwrecked sola scriptura and the pure Bible and foundational doctrine. And after they had left the centrality of the Lord Jesus for "Yahweh-worship". Christian doctrines are now a play-thing of men in rebellion.

    Now, for perspective, this is not the worst doctrinal error that has infected Homestead Heritage. The worship of the devil entity "yahweh" is far more pernicious. And the Bible version juggling act is more fundamental.

    However, this pledge absurdity is very helpful for understanding the deeper things of God, and the wayward movements of Homestead Heritage.

    2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (AV)
    Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
    for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
    and what communion hath light with darkness?
    And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
    or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
    for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people.
    Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,
    and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
    And will be a Father unto you,
    and ye shall be my sons and daughters,
    saith the Lord Almighty.


    The Lord Jesus Christ must be our center, which does hold. Thank you, Jesus.

    Their "Yahweh-worship" equates to Belial.

    The Corinthians verses inform us of our necessary steps, and the necessary steps of any Christians involved in or around Homestead Heritage.
    Continuing on with their brand spanking new, private heresy "revelation" that water baptism involves a:

    "...pledge of the old nature..."

    The first I heard of this was quite recent.(I never saw this in any books, old or recent.) And by checking archive.org , it looks like the first time it was ever pronounced as Homestead Heritage doctrine was around November, 2015.

    The elder with the most traditional Christian understanding was the late, beloved sweet brother Denny Allensworth. Denny passed away shortly after Thanksgiving 2014. My sense is that he might well have noticed that problem and spoken up.

    Yet this absurdity slipped by all the elders, writers and ministers. Did it slip by Blair Adams? Did he actually read that statement of faith, carefully? I tend to think not.

    Are there any Christians remaining at Homestead Heritage? You would think that any member could have pointed this out, e.g. in one of those private meetings with Howard Wheeler. Yet this spiritual abomination of a "pledge of the old nature" seems to be accepted by all. Or else, they are too cowed and fearful of elder rebuke to bring the question up forthrightly.

    Whatever the full story, it is terribly amiss, Christian doctrine is fallen.
    For spiritual relief, let's go back to Acts 2!

    Acts 2:38-41 (AV)
    Then Peter said unto them,
    Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
    and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
    and to all that are afar off,
    even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,
    Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
    and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

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