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Thread: Apostolic grammatical dual addressing

  1. Default Apostolic grammatical dual addressing


    Granville Penn with epistle verses showing dual addressing God and Jesus Christ


    Hi,


    2 Peter 1:1
    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
    to them that have obtained like precious faith with us
    through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:


    Annotations to the Book of the New Covenant: With an Expository Preface
    Granville Penn
    http://books.google.com/books?id=S80tAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA455
    ... II Peter - Chapter 1
    The "masterly note (says Bloomfield) in justification of the rendering, 'our God and Saviour,' by Bp. Middleton, proves, that the passage is plainly and unequivocally to be understood as an assumption, that Jesus Christ 'is our God and Saviour.'". ... This proffered division of Erasmus, our revisers accepted from his authority, and chose the latter alternative. It is now to be inquired, whether they were justified in so doing. Though the import insisted on by those earnest commentators is, no doubt, doctrinally true, yet, the true construction of the passage does not rest on that truth of doctrine, but on soundness of interpretation. Let us, therefore, review this form of association, in the several places where it occurs in other places.



    ... This is not a question of doctrine, but of true and correct interpretation. A forced and artful interpretation can administer no lasting support to doctrine; but casts on it a suspicious character, by the manifest violence exercised to defend it. The doctrine, which those zealous commentators were anxious to confirm by their joint efforts on this text, needed not those exertions; since it pervades the whole Gospel-Covenant, and constitutes its entire foundation. Precipitate and ill-considered advocacy, acts hostilely to every cause. In this verse, the sacred writer meant to convey the sense to which our revisers (whose orthodoxy cannot be questioned) have been guided by Erasmus, viz. "the justification of our God, and "of our Saviour J. C."

    Granville Penn also points out that it would be very simple to write "our God and Saviour Jesus Christ" directly in the Greek, without a convoluted and hidden to the reader grammatical construction. This is another type of fundamental point that is a bit too difficult for today's atomistic seminarians.

    And that was the list from which I drew the verses in my post giving examples of apostolic (Paul and Peter) dual addressing.

    ===============

    Mirrored from CARM

    Granville Penn with epistle verses showing dual addressing God and Jesus Christ

    http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...=1#post6201862


    Yours in Jesus,
    Steven Avery


  2. Default Benjamin Hall Kennedy- apostolic dual addressing of God & Christ in mutual relation

    Titus 2:13
    Looking for that blessed hope,
    and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


    Benjamin Hall Kennedy (1804-1899) who was one of the committee members on the revision that was railroaded into the Westcott-Hort recension. In discussing Titus 2:13, he made a similar excellent point (although I would not use the word "persons purpose distinct") :


    The divinity of Christ, a sermon. With an appendix on Romans ix. 5, and Titus ii. 13
    (1883)
    http://books.google.com/books?id=lLQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA16

    As to the passage in Titus, since I believe it to be rightly rendered by the translators of 1611,1 had no occasion to notice it in 1861. But it now becomes a plain though painful duty to contend against the change made by the majority of the Revisers, which seems to me a blot on our work.

    Let me first set down a state of facts, as preliminary to the whole discussion.

    (1) St Paul's thirteen epistles contain more than 200 passages, in which the names of God (the Father) and Christ (under various titles) appear in mutual relation, as names of persons purposely distinct. See the list at foot*.




    Note: I have not reviewed this list.

    Yours in Jesus,
    Steven Avery
    Last edited by Steven Avery; 12-09-2017 at 02:24 AM.

  3. Default dual addressing

    More on dual addressing
    https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...62#post1243862

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Avery;n1243862
    dual addressing - the blunder accusation bus

    Hi,

    Just to respond to one blunder accusation.

    It was falsely implied that I gave a number of verses as Granville Sharp Rule examples that are not. Notice, however, that the verses were given specifically to show the consistent writing style of dual addressing common in New Testament writing.


    Which is a very significant part of understanding the whole controversy on the GSR verses. Dual addressing is the norm of New Testament style. Identity verses are, as is well known, not the style. And all claims (like John 20:28 which is a different two nouns but is related by context) are far from straightforward and limited to, outside of the GSR controversy, a couple of verses.

    This is why the whole GSR controversy arose, it was an attempt to fabricate eight new identify verses out of sheer cloth, and the new mistranslation was pre-designed for a particular Christological apologetic purposes.

    Even if you like the particular Christological position, any sensible Bible student will reject the text tampering, even when defended by the law firm of Special and Pleading.

    I'll see if I can find the original source as well.

    This can show you very clearly what happens when there are those who are obsessed without substance go into railing accusation mode. In point of fact, everything I said on this aspect of the verses was 100% accurate.

    And in general, when I make an error, I am happy to make a correction, and that does happen at times. However, absolutely nothing was inaccurate here.

    One of the ironies here is that an atomistic seminarian involved in piddle-Greek may not even realize that the normal style of addressing is significant! See above about forest-trees-twigs.

    However, I do appreciate that the dual addressing element was brought in the discussion, so I will bring the verses here that demonstrate the stylistic consistency.

    =============

    ... the pure Bible of the two complementary verses of Peter's salutation:

    2 Peter 1:1
    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
    to them that have obtained like precious faith with us
    through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    2 Peter 1:2
    Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God,
    and of Jesus our Lord,

    Is very common throughout the epistles, with a powerful and clear consistency.

    Romans 1:7
    To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
    Grace to you and peace from God our Father,
    and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:3
    Grace be unto you, and peace,
    from God our Father,
    and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    2 Corinthians 1:2
    Grace be to you and peace from God our Father,
    and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Galatians 1:3
    Grace be to you and peace from God the Father,
    and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Ephesians 1:2
    Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father,
    and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Philippians 1:2
    Grace be unto you, and peace,
    from God our Father,
    and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 1:2
    To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:
    Grace be unto you, and peace,
    from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Thessalonians 1:1
    Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus,
    unto the church of the Thessalonians
    which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ:

    1 Thessalonians 1:2
    Grace be unto you, and peace,
    from God our Father,
    and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    2 Thessalonians 1:1
    Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus,
    unto the church of the Thessalonians
    in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

    1 Timothy 1:1
    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ
    by the commandment of God our Saviour,
    and Lord Jesus Christ,
    which is our hope;

    1 Timothy 1:2
    Unto Timothy,
    my
    own son in the faith:
    Grace, mercy, and peace,
    from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2 Timothy 1:2
    To Timothy, my dearly beloved son:
    Grace, mercy, and peace,
    from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Titus 1:4
    To Titus, mine own son after the common faith:
    Grace, mercy, and peace,
    from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

    Philemon 1:3
    Grace to you, and peace,
    from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


    All these verses have the same apostolic grammatical sense of addressing God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    The same basic relational aspect is in :

    Titus 2:13
    Looking for that blessed hope,
    and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


    ... With appreciation to Granville Penn (1761-1844) who put these verses together to help demonstrate Bible understanding and consistency.

    =============

    Psalm 119:140
    Thy word is very pure:
    therefore thy servant loveth it.

    Yours in Jesus,
    Steven Avery

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