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Thread: James White boomerang - any “scholar” who can’t even get this story straight ...

  1. Default the four-fold aomin.org error-fest


    James White has pulled a number of scholastic doozies and turnarounds over the years. However, this boomerang attack has very significant qualitative differences.

    Let's review:

    1) James White makes a scholastic error, using Metzger rather than the primary source of Tischendorf, misreading, then mangling the rewrite for his own book. And he thinks that Sinaiticus was never reported by Tischendorf to be found in a trash can. Even in the 1990s, in his book, the information is errant.

    Ok, this is pretty bad, but errors like this can occur, they are understandable.

    2) James White says to others "your wrong, Sinaiticus was not found in a trash can." . He does not double check Metzger, he does not go back to the primary sources.

    This is a real compounding of the error of (1). Quite a bit worse. Still, it could simply be considered a bad error, corrected, and move on.

    3) As part of (2) James White starts becoming a railing accuser of others who are stating the accurate position.

    a) not worth reading
    b) dishonest
    c) lost credibility

    He still does not check the fact base.

    At this point, it is one of the worst errors possible. Horrendous. Railing accusations against others, including dishonesty, based on your own shoddy research and errors.

    Still, if properly corrected, when pointed out, it might give him egg in the face, but little lasting damage to how his integrity is viewed.
    People tend to be forgiving to sincere apologies.

    4) Error correction is obstinately rejected. No review is forthcoming. The spirit of railing false accusation is never withdrawn. A couple of sidesteps are made by Pierce in conversation, emails are unanswered. (And his friend Alan Kurschner follows in White's footsteps, repeats the same error of false accusastion, and also refuses correction.)

    This is a total and complete fail. There is no integrity of the aomin.org organization, James White and the others.


    =====================

    Still, even now, better proper correction 20 years late, than never.

    Matthew 12:36
    But I say unto you,
    That every idle word that men shall speak,
    they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


  2. Default the 2013 attempt to have Alan Kurschner to correct his false accusation of lying against Chris Pinto

    Here is my first letter, in full, to Alan on Dec 7, 2013.

    ===================================

    From: Steven Avery
    Subject: accusing Chris Pinto of lying about the Tischendorf rubbish basket

    Hi Alan,

    Chris Pinto - blurb for Tares
    "Tischendorf said he found the work in a rubbish basket at a Greek Orthodox monastery in Egypt."

    You call this a "documentary lie" and it is your one accusation of lying (for lucre) against Chris Pinto.

    "I want to respond to one documentary lie in Pinto’s blurb."

    Chris Pinto and His Ignorant, Kooky Conspiracy
    http://www.alankurschner.com/2013/07...oky-conspiracy

    However, if you read the account in Tischendorf's book that is online:

    When Were Our Gospels Written, Narrative of the Discovery of the Sinaitic Manuscript, Tischendorf, 1867

    You will find that the manuscript leafs that Tischendorf claimed to save from the flames in the first visit in 1844, that he did not take away, were in fact, in the Tischendorf version, part of the 1859 red cloth manuscript.

    Please read the section carefully (your error here was using the errant James White secondary source rather than the primary source.)

    And I believe you will see that you owe Chris Pinto a retraction and sincere apology, since you accused him of lying based on the errors of James White and yourself. Accusing words of Chris that were not only not a lie, the words were 100% accurate.

    There are other problems in your writing, even on that blog page (e.g. your addition of "Roman" to "Catholic monks" makes it an historical error), however the key one is the accusation of lying for lucre, and taking advantage of the ignorant, when the ignorance was all from James White and yourself.

    Incidentally, this was pointed out on the TC-Alternate forum in August of this year, post #5760,

    [TC-Alternate-list] James White (any "scholar") myths about Codex Sinaiticus - Alan Kurschner redux -
    Steven Avery - August 10, 2013
    (url removed)

    Thanks!

    Steven Avery
    (email and phone)

    PS.
    Clearly, James White also owes a number of people that he has similarly accused of ignorance on this topic an apology for various accusations over the last two decades. He would actually quote his own errant book in order to support the accusations. Oops.

    PPS.
    There is an additional issue as to whether any of the Tischendorf account can be accepted as truthful and accurate. The short answer is no. However, that does not weigh into your exchange with Chris Pinto, since Chris was reporting what Tischendorf claimed (Chris knows the material too well to assume any accuracy from Tischendorf).

    And in the various discussions of James White he was accusing others based on allowing the Tischendorf story to be the historical reference. Apparently James White went off a short, somewhat incomplete and distorted summary from Bruce Metzger rather than reading the Tischendorf account.

    =========

    Feel free to quote this, in full, privately or publicly, taking out my phone #. Email addy is optional, eg. (email address) or the actual address or nothing.

    If you want to edit, quoting less than full, I request that you ask my permission before using. I will probably say ok, if the editing is reasonable, however I have a general concern there.

    ===================================

    END

    Alan Kurschner still, today, has not corrected his bogus accusation of a "documentary lie" when Chris Pinto wrote a sentence that is 100% accurate:

    "Tischendorf said he found the work in a rubbish basket at a Greek Orthodox monastery in Egypt."

    ======

    (Kurschner went off on a wild tangent instead, a bit out of left field, about John William Burgon.)

    Steven Avery
    Dutchess County, NY

  3. Default contrast between Colin Smith on aomin.org (accurate) and railing accusations of White


    James White boomerang - any “scholar” who can’t even get this story straight ...

    contrast between Colin Smith on aomin.org (accurate) and railing accusations of White
    CARM Post #83 - Steven Avery 5-21-2016
    http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...=1#post7957751

    Now we will counterpose Colin Smith, writing correctly on the aomin.org site, with the attacks on Douglas Stauffer and Chris Pinto for saying the same thing as Colin Smith, that Tischendorf claimed to find the Sinaitiicus ms. in a rubbish basket ready to be burned. (We noted above that Stauffer had the wrong year, and that Tischendorf was actually lying.)


    ===========

    Colin Smith on aomin.org site:
    "According to Tischendorf, these parchment leaves were to be used for lighting the monastery oven" - Colin Smith
    (url in post above)

    ===========

    Alan Kurschner calls this from Chris Pinto a "documentary lie", his blunder was caused by accepting the James White section in his book as accurate:

    "Tischendorf said he found the work in a rubbish basket at a Greek Orthodox monastery in Egypt." - Chris Pinto

    I want to respond to one documentary lie in Pinto’s blurb. ... It was not found in a “rubbish basket.” Just the contrary, it was prized and protected by its owner. To sell his DVDs, Pinto must take advantage of those ignorant of the historical facts. Here is a refutation to Pinto’s claim from an excerpt in James White’s book.... - Alan Kirschner -

    http://www.alankurschner.com/2013/07/15/chris-pinto-and-his-ignorant-kooky-conspiracy/

    ==========

    James White accuses Douglas Stauffer of dishonesty, not really worth reading, credibility is destroyed, for saying that Sinaiticus was found in a trash can.

    "Sinaiticus (discovered in 1859 in a trash can at St. Catherine’s monastery on Mt. Sinai)" - Douglas Stauffer

    "Sinaiticus was not found in a trash can." - James White

    https://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2006/03/15/dr-stauffer-on-codex-sinaiticus/

    ==========

    And the root of all this was how James White mangled the secondary source of Metzger in his book, shown in a post above.

    Note that all this error and false accusation from James White (and later Alan Kirschner) could have been corrected long ago. They simply have refused to correct the blunders.

    ==========

    any "scholar" who can't even get this story straight is not really worth reading, to be honest - (Douglas Stauffer url above)
    James White 3/15/2006


    ==========


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