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Thread: Jerome's additional references and connections to the heavenly witnesses verse

  1. Default Jerome's additional references and connections to the heavenly witnesses verse

    Psalm 91 - add to Wikipedia

    Marcus Celedensis

    "et hi tres unum sunt una divinitas" -

    contra Priscillian (as in Psalm 91 section)

    Expositio Fidei Catholicae

    Victorinus Afer


    Marcus Celedensis

    Coming down to us with the writings of Jerome we have the statement of faith attributed to Marcus Celedensis, friend and correspondent to Jerome, presented to Cyril:

    To us there is one Father, and his only Son [who is] very [or true] God, and one Holy Spirit, [who is] very God, and these three are one ; – one divinity, and power, and kingdom. And they are three persons, not two nor one.[30][31]
    Phoebadius of Agen

    Similarly, Jerome wrote of Phoebadius of Agen in his Lives of Illustrious Men. "Phoebadius, bishop of Agen, in Gaul, published a book Against the Arians. There are said to be other works by him, which I have not yet read. He is still living, infirm with age."[32] William Hales looks at Phoebadius:

    Phoebadius, A. D. 359, in his controversy with the Arians, Cap, xiv. writes, "The Lord says, I will ask of my Father, and He will give you another advocate." (John xiv. 16) Thus, the Spirit is another from the Son as the Son is another from the Father; so, the third person is in the Spirit, as the second, is in the Son. All, however, are one God, because the three are one, (tres unum sunt.) … Here, 1 John v. 7, is evidently connected, as a scriptural argument, with John xiv. 16.[33]

    Griesbach argued that Phoebadius was only making an allusion to Tertullian,[34] and his unusual explanation was commented on by Reithmayer.[35][36]

    Horne, critical study 1933, p. 451
    http://books.google.com/books?id=BrtUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA451

    1 Nobis unus * Pater,' et unus * Filius' ejus verus Deus, et unus ‘ Spiritus Sanetus,' verus Deus, ‘ el kt tres ttnum sunt ;' una Divinitas, et potentia, et reornum Sunt autem tres persoiue, non duae, non una, &c. Marc. Cqjed. Exposit. Fid. ad
    Cyril, apud Hieronymi Opera, tom. ix. p. 73. g. (Nolan’s Inquiry, p 291. note.)

    2 Dominus ‘ Petam’ inquit, a Patre meo, et alium advocatum dabit vobis. Sic alius a Filio 1 Spiritus,’ 6icut alius a Patre ‘ Filius.’ Sic tertia in Spiritu, ut in Filio sccunda persona : unus tamen Deus (omnia) quia ‘ tres unum sunt.' Phcebad. contr. Arian. c. xlv. (Nolan’s Inquiry, p. 291. note.)

    Travis references Jerome as writing approvingly of the confession. George Travis, Letters to Edward Gibbon, 1785 p. 108. The Latin is "Nobis unus Pater, et unus Filius ejus, verus Deus, et unus Spiritus Sanctus, verus Deus; et hi tres unum sunt; una divimtas, et potentia, et regnum. Sunt autem tres Personae, non-duae, non-una" Marc Celed. Exposit. Fid. ad Cyril apud Hieronymi Opera, tom. ix. p. 73g. Frederick Nolan, An inquiry into the integrity of the Greek Vulgate, 1815, p. 291.

    Jerome, Lives of Illustrious Men, translated by Ernest Cushing Richardson, footnote: "Bishop 353, died about 392".
    William Hales, Inspector, Antijacobin Review, Sabellian Controversy, Letter XII 1816, p. 590. "Denique Dominus: Petam, inquit, a Patre meo et alium advocatum dabit vobis … Sic alius a Filio Spiritus, sicut a Patre Filius. Sic tertia in Spiritu, ut in Filio secunda persona: unus tamen Deus omnia, tres unum sunt. Phoebadius, Liber Contra Arianos
    Griesbach, Diatribe, p. 700
    Introduction historique et critique aux libres de Nouveau Testament 1861, p.564.
    In dismissing Phoebadius in this fashion, Griesbach was following Porson, whose explanation began, "Phoebadius plainly imitates Tertullian…and therefore, is not a distinct evidence", Letters to Archdeacon Travis, 1790, p. 247.
    Last edited by Steven Avery; 06-02-2019 at 02:08 AM.

  2. Default Psalm 91 - "striking similarity" Joseph Denk - Grantley McDonald

    Grantley on Psalm 91, Jerome and Joseph Denk (in evidence timeline WIP as 1906)

    Joseph Denk (1849-1927) (Josef)
    https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...nk_(Philologe)
    http://books.google.com/books?id=1toWHpy0VLgC&pg=PA476
    http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/de-gruyte...nae-hQ81n960Da

    And Denk wrote as one of the people refuting the Kunstle attempt to make Priscillian the author of the heavenly witnesses, strongly supported by Babut. Künstle is in the text of Biblical Criticism, the main section is p. 307-310, RGA, p. 36-38. The Denk material is only in RGA.

    Here is the Jerome section in German:

    Hieronymus († 420) Über den Psalm 91
    https://www.unifr.ch/bkv/kapitel2144.htm

    RGA p. 55 and footnote 80, (spacing and emphasis added here)
    and Psalm 91 with Je
    rome and Denk are not in Biblical Criticism

    =====================

    But even if this prologue was not written by Jerome, it is clear that Jerome was aware of the Trinitarian allegoresis of 1 Jn 5:8, to which he refers in a sermon preached at Bethlehem in 401. Nevertheless, the way in which Jerome cites the surrounding context gives no indication that he was familiar with the comma in the form it has come down to us. Moreover, Jerome suggests that the attendant speculations about the nature of the Trinity—Joseph Denk suggested that he may have had the followers of Priscillian in mind—were controversial, dangerous and presumptuous, tantamount to the speculations of an earthernware vessel on the nature of the potter who fashioned it.80

    80 Jerome, Tractatuum in psalmos series altera, de Psalmo 91, CCSL 78, 424-429:

    “Relatum est mihi, fratres, quia inter se quidam fratres disputando quaesissent, quomodo Pater et Filius et Spiritus sanctus et tres et unum sunt. Videtis ex quaestione, quam periculosa sit disputatio: lutum et vas fictile de creatore disputat, et ad rationem suae naturae non potest pervenire; et curiose quaerit scire de mysterio Trinitatis, quod angeli in caelo scire non possunt.”

    This section of Jerome’s commentary constitutes the incipit of Augustine’s Sermo de sancta trinitate, PL 39:2173 (Appendix, Sermo 232), as noted by Fischer, 2007,119. Denk, 1906, asserted that this passage shows Jerome as “den klassischen Zeugen fur die Existenz des Comma Johanneum in der spanischen Bibel des 4. Jahr., der es (gleichviel ob mit der Lesart tres oder trio) nicht fur schriftwidrig hielt, trotzdem er es von seiner Bibelrevision ausschloG.” But this evidence is not at all compelling. As Denk himself admits, the passage Jerome himself provides to demonstrate the three persons of the Trinity is Mt 28:19, not the Johannine comma.
    Grantley calls this an allegoresis by Jerome, on the earthly witnesses, but offers no substantive evidence. Remember, this is the same ultra-speculative approach that is used with Cyprian. And has anyone previously used this non-substantive hand-wave for the Jerome section?

    And if Jerome considered these connections as potentially "controversial, dangerous and presumptuous" that fits perfectly with the idea that some scribes would even drop the verse, as stated in the Vulgate Prologue.

    June, 20, 2019, working closely as a help to Mike Ferrrando, we now have the section from Joseph Denk translated by Professor Brian Daley, of Notre Dame!


    Jerome, Tractatus on Psalm 91 (Analecta Maredsolana III, 3, p. 74, 10ff.):
    "It has been reported to me, brothers, that some of the brothers have been asking, in argument, how 'the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are both three and one.' You see from the question how dangerous the argument is. Clay and a fragile vessel are arguing about the creator, when they cannot come to an understanding of their own nature; and they curiously seek to know the mystery of the Trinity, which the angels in heaven cannot know..."

    G. Morin remarks on this passage,"To the final section of the Tractatus there is attached a sermon attributed to Augustine, as No. 232A," which at present I cannot consult.

    Anyone who knows Scripture will immediately recognize the striking similarity with I John 5.7, the so-called 'Comma Johanneum'; except for the fact that the official text reads, 'Father, Word, and Holy Spirit, and these three are one.'

    These Tractatus are homilies Jerome delivered during his stay in Bethlehem, which lasted from 386 to 415 - according to Bardenhewer, Patrologie, p. 410, in the course of the year 401,

    Can we not imagine that in the 'dangerous argument of the brethren' we hear the sound of the waves of Priscillianism, which crashed even against the quiet cloister walls of the monastic community in Bethlehem, against which St. Jerome wanted to set up a barrier, with his striking, if also restrained, homily? If so, then we recognize in Jerome the classic witness to the existence of the Comma Johanneum in the Spanish Bible of the fourth century, who considered it (whether or not it contained the reading tres or tria) not contrary to Scripture, even though he excluded it from his revision of the Bible. Jerome, in his grandiose conception of the infallibility of official Church teaching (see Bardenhewer, p. 413), did not want to get ahead of the Roman see in making a final dogmatic correction of the Biblical canon. He himself, however, in his homily (and here the critical scholar is in evidence), in order to justify his Christian faith in the Trinitarian God, relies not on the Commas Johanneum but on Matt. 28.19..

    To the honor and the good reputation of the Spanish Church and its shepherds, one must surely suppose that they very carefully protected their text of the Bible as a literary deposit of faith and preserved it most anxiously against falsification. So it is inappropriate to make Priscillian into the creator of the Comma Johanneum, and so into the falsifier of the Spanish Bible text. I have compared all the quotations in Priscillian [with the Bible] most carefully, for my studies of the Itala; they represent a very early, highly interesting and faithful form of the Itala. I have never encountered in his [Priscillian's] work a trace of conscious falsification. Is it conceivable that such an exorbitant falsification, undertaken in the age of Jerome, would not have been exposed and destroyed by this student of the Biblical text - this relentless 'hammer of heretics'?

    Munich Joseph Denk
    ==========

    The Google translate is no longer needed, it will be placed down a few posts.


    For now, we will use the Google translate of the Latin section:

    "It was me, my brothers some of our points are searched, as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three and one. You see, out of the question, which it will be for debate is the Creator, he argues from the clay, and the vessel of earth, and the intellect can not attain to it by its nature; they are busy trying to learn about the mystery of the Trinity, the angels in heaven can not know."

    "wie der Vater und der Sohn und der Heilige Geist sowohl drei als auch eins seien"
    - Ludwig Schade commentary

    And the German translated, with more context:

    Des heiligen Kirchenvaters Eusebius Hieronymus ausgewählte Schriften / aus dem Lateinischen übers. von Ludwig Schade. (Des heiligen Kirchenvaters Hieronymus ausgewählte Schriften Bd. 1; Bibliothek der Kirchenväter, 1. Reihe, Band 52) Kempten; München : J. Kösel : F. Pustet, 1914
    Für die BKV im Internet bearbeitet von:
    Konrad Holzbauer

    Why do I notice all this? For I have heard that among the brothers a dispute, or rather a discussion, has taken place. I say a discussion, not a fight; for where dispute prevails, there is sin. But where a discussion takes place there is a pious yearning for knowledge. No one tried to prove what he could not know, but one turned to my own ignorance. They did not want to teach about things that they did not know themselves, but wanted to learn what was unknown. This issue is not unlike that raised on the mercy of God. In Isaiah, with reference to the Lord and Redeemer, "Who can indicate his lineage?" 6 As soon as it says "who," every creature is excluded. The Prophet did not say, "Who of men can indicate his descent?", But rather he writes "who?" This means: "No angel, no archangel, no cherubim, no seraphim". If, therefore, even the heavenly creatures kept what was at stake here hidden from God, may it surprise us when it appears unknown to us, the creator of dust? It has been communicated to me, brethren, that some of the brethren have occasionally, among themselves, raised the question of how the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are both three and one. You see from the question how dangerous such a discussion is. A vessel made of clay enters into consideration of the Creator and can not even arrive at the exploration of his own nature. Full of curiosity it seeks to know about the mystery of the Trinity, which even the angels of heaven can not fathom. For what do the angels speak? "Who is that King of glory? The Lord of hosts is the King of glory." 8 Similarly, Isaias writes, "Who is he who comes up from Edom, clothed in white garments?" 9 We see that they praise God's beauty but that they do not omit their essence. That's why we just want to be modest. If you want to fathom the divine nature, if you want to know what God is, then realize that you do not know it. But you do not need to worry about that; because even the angels do not know it, and no other creature knows it either. But I am prepared for the objection: "Why do I believe what I do not understand?" Yes, why am I a Christian because I do not know how I became a Christian? I just want to talk before I mention the Scriptures. My Christian, why do you feel so ignorant? If you know that you do not know anything, will not you, on the contrary, feel like one who has more knowledge? The Gentile sees a stone and considers it to be God, the philosopher contemplates the firmament and perceives his God in him. Others see the sun, and it seems to them to be God. But consider how far you surpass these people in your knowledge when you say, "One stone can not be God, the sun, which is at the behest of another, can not be God." Under the confession of your ignorance hides a greater knowledge. But the Gentiles are ignorant in what they know themselves to be ignorant, because their knowledge is erroneous. In addition, you should remember your name once. You are called a believer, not a thinker. Because when someone has received baptism, they say, "He is" or "I have become a believer." I believe what I do not understand. And that's why I'm a knower, because I'm aware of my ignorance. It will be objected that this is not an explanation, but an evasion. "We already knew this, that we know that we know nothing, instruct us so that we may also grasp what is hidden from our knowledge!" Is not it better to admit humbly his ignorance than to be proud of having knowledge? On the Day of Judgment, I will not be condemned because I say, "I did not invade the essence of my Creator." But if I make a bold assertion, presumption will become its punishment, but ignorance will be forgiven. I also want to use the Holy Scriptures in support so as not to rely so much on my own thinking as on the authority of our Lord and Redeemer. What did he say shortly before his ascension to the apostles, to whom he speaks as master and Lord? No one can talk about his own nature as he, who is God himself. For us it may be enough to know as much of the Trinity as the Lord has deigned to tell us. What does he say to the apostles? "Go and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." 10 I hear three names, and yet only one is called. The Lord does not speak "in the name", but "in the name". The Lord names three names. How can he summarize them in the words, "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? The name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one; but it is the name of the Trinity. When it says, "In the name of God the Father, in the name of God the Son and in the name of God the Holy Spirit", then Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the name of the deity. But if you ask me how three can be named, then I do not know, and I honestly confess my ignorance because Christ did not want to reveal anything about it. That alone I know that I am a Christian because I confess a God in the Trinity. But if I said that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were only one person, then I could be called a Sabellian. I would then start to be a Jew instead of a Christian. For the Jews also confess a god, but because they know nothing of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they do not believe in the mystery of the Trinity. So if we want to talk about a god in the sense that we exclude the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from the mystery of the Trinity, then we will become Jews. I freely admit, not out of myself, but in the name of the Redeemer, it elicits to hear, "How can three be one, how is it that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not separated in the Deity?" But every time I use the term persons, I ask you to remember that I'm not talking about human beings. In the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, I speak not of persons as of human persons, but of the peculiarities pertaining to each one of them. I call the Father Person, because he is Father, the Son because he is Son, the Holy Spirit because he is Holy Spirit. The Father is not Son, and the Son is not Father, and the Holy Spirit is neither Father nor Son. In their peculiarities each person stands by himself, while the entity forms the unifying bond. The same impulse was once taken by the apostle Philip, when he said to the Lord: "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 12. The Lord gives him the answer: "Philip, as long as I am with you, and you do not know the Father, who sees me, sees also the Father" 13, It would be wrong to say that the Father is at the same time the Son. But when you hear the word Son, you also think of the Father; because the son could not be called a son if he did not have a father. On the other hand, the name father would be meaningless if there were not a son.

    7: Denk glaubt aus dieser Stelle folgern zu können, daß die Irrlehre Priszillians, der ähnlich wie Sabellius zu einer modalistischen Auffassung der Trinität sich bekannte, auch die Klostergemeinde zu Bethlehem beunruhigt und eine lebhafte Erörterung hervorgerufen habe. Sollte diese Vermutung richtig sein, dann begrüßt er in Hieronymus den klassischen Zeugen für die Existenz des Comma Johanneum in der spanischen Bibel des vierten Jahrhunderts [Theol. Revue V-1906, 59 f.]

    Denk believes that from this passage it can be deduced that the heresy of Priscillian, who, like Sabellius, professed a modalistic conception of the Trinity, also disturbed the convent community of Bethlehem and aroused a lively discussion. If this assumption is correct, then he welcomes in Hieronymus the classic witness for the existence of the Comma Johanneum in the Spanish bible of the fourth century [Theol. Revue V-1906, 59 f.]

    8: Ps. 23, 10.
    9: Is. 63, 1.
    10: Matth. 28, 19. Das sog. Comma Johanneum, 1 Joh. 5, wird hier nicht erwähnt.

    11: Die Sabellianer [benannt nach Sabellius] lehren eine Dreiheit in Gott, aber nur in der Erscheinungsweise der Welt gegenüber. Der eine Gott heißt bald Vater, Sohn oder Hl. Geist, je nach den verschiedenen Offenbarungsweisen. Eine auf innergöttlichen Vorgängen beruhende Unterscheidung dreier Personen ist ihnen fremd

    The Sabellians [named for Sabellius] teach a trinity in God, but only in the appearance of the world. The one God is soon called Father, Son or Holy Spirit, according to the different ways of revelation. A distinction of three persons based on inner divine processes is alien to them
    ==========

    Not a hint of an allegory from water, spirit and blood. And the Matthew 28:19 Trinity usage evidence from silence is of no real value, especially as the controversial aspect of the heavenly witnesses wording is emphasized.

    The first section above from Grantley dances around incompatible connections, to draw attention away from Jerome's familiarity with the heavenly witnesses.

    Psalm 91 from Jerome
    "
    attendant speculations about the nature of the Trinity"


    "Ein neuer Texteszeuge zum Comma Johanneum"
    Joseph
    Denk
    http://archive.org/details/theologis...ivuoft/page/30 p. 59-60
    "frappante Ähnlichkeit " == "striking similarity"
    Denk, Joseph. “Ein neuer Texteszeuge zum Comma Johanneum.” Theologische Revue 5 (1906): 59-60.
    ==========

    Biblische Zeitschrift, Volumes 3-4 1906 - p. 208-209 - 5 lines - Denk's "frappante Ähnlichkeit" questioned
    http://books.google.com/books?id=1wY...J&pg=RA1-PA208

    https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_9C84AQAAMAAJ#page/n219/mode/2up/

    Biblische Zeitschrift, Volumes 3-4
    interesting references also on:
    p. 200-201 - Belser on Gutjahr
    p. 208-209 - Denk

    p. 221 - Thomas Calmes
    https://books.google.com/books?id=1w...J&pg=RA1-PA221
    Epîtres catholiques ; Apocalypse. Traduction et commentaire par Th. Calmes

    p. 222 - Laurentius Janssens on Kunstle and decree
    https://books.google.com/books?id=1w...J&pg=RA1-PA222

    p. 336 - Kunstle ad
    p. 440 - Kunstle

    p. 442 - Adolf Jülicher - review of Kunstle -


    also Amelli, - Dissertatio Maximini contra Ambrosium - Cavensis
    http://books.google.com/books?id=1wY...J&pg=RA1-PA442

    This is now located at:
    Dissertatio Maximini contra Ambrosium
    http://www.purebibleforum.com/showth...ntra+Ambrosium
    ==========

    Note, the Kunstle bibliography in RGA is:

    Kiinstle, KarL Das Comma Ioanneum. Aujseine Hcrkunft untcrsucht. Freiburg: Herder, 1905a.
    . Antipriscilliana: Dogmetigeschichtliche Untersuchungen und Texte aus deni Streite gegen
    Priscillians Irrlehre. Freiburg: Herder, 190Sb.
    Last edited by Steven Avery; 06-22-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  3. Default

    Courtesy of Mike Ferrando and a friend:

    Marcus Celedensis (also known as Anianus of Celeda) (401-500 AD)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anianus_of_Celeda

    "To us there is one Father, one Son, a true God, and one Holy Spirit, a true God, and these three are one, one divinity, and power, and kingdom."
    Nobis igitur unus pater, & unus filius ejus verus Deus, & unus Spiritus sanctus verus Deus : & hi tres unum sunt

    ===Translation:

    So we have one Father and one Son of his the true God, and one Holy Spirit, the true God, and these three are one, one divinity and power and kingdom. But these are three persons, not two, not one, not as a result of revelation or combination or fusion, but always reminding divine persons. Faith in them is given by baptisms, from them remission of sin is granted, and eternal life is hoped for without the least doubt. By a true belief in the Trinity the holy and blessed patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs earned glory in martyrdom and obtained hope of eternal life, and have obtained their lot in the kingdom of heaven by an inheritance that is not to be doubted.

    ===SOURCE:
    S. Hieronymi Operum Mantissa.
    Epistola XVII. Seu Explanatio Fidei ad Cyrillum.III.
    [col 181]
    Nobis igitur unus Pater, et unus Filius eius verus Deus, et unus Spiritus sanctus verus Deus: et hi tres unum sunt, una divinitas, et (0181D) potentia, et regnum. Sunt autem tres personae, non duae, non una, non secundum revelationem, aut collectionem, aut confusionem, sed semper manentibus personis divinis. Harum fides datur in baptismo, ab his et remissio datur peccati, et vita aeterna sine aliqua dubitatione speratur. Huic Trinitati credentes vere sancti et beati patriarchae, prophetae, apostoli, martyres, et martyrii gloriam meruerunt, et spem vitae perennis adepti sunt, et regnum coelorum haereditatione non ambigua sortiti sunt.

    ==

    S. Hieronymi Operum Mantissa.
    Epistola XVII. Seu Explanatio Fidei ad Cyrillum.III.
    Migne Latina, PL 30, 181C-D
    https://books.google.com/books?id=v5NBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA179

    ===SOURCE:
    Expositione Fidei ad Cyrillum, apud Hieronymum (Paris, 1693). vol 5, p. 127D.

    Nobis igitur unus pater, & unus filius ejus verus Deus, & unus Spiritus sanctus verus Deus : & hi tres unum sunt, una divinitas & potentia & regnum. Sunt autem tres personae, non duae, non una, non secundum revelationem, aut collectionem, aut confusionem, sed semper manentibus personis divinis. Harum fides datur in baptismo, ab his & remissio datur peccanti, & vita aeterna sine aliqua dubitatione speratur. Huic trinitati credentes vere sancti & beati Patriarchae, Prophetae, Apostoli, martyres : & martyrii gloriam meruerunt, & spem vitae perennis adepti sunt, & regnum coelorum haereditatione non ambigua fortiti sunt.

    ==

    Jérôme, et al. Sancti Eusebii Hieronymi Stridonensis presbyteri Divina bibliotheca antehac inedita complectens translationes latinas Veteris ac Novi Testamenti, cùm ex Hebraeis, tum è Graecis fontibus derivatas ; innumera quoque scholia marginalia antiquissimi Hebraei cujusdam scriptoris anonymi, Hebraeas voces pressiùs exprimentis. Prodit è vetustissimis manuscriptis codicibus Gallicanis, Vaticanis, &c. Studio et labore monachorum ordinis S. Benedicti è congregatione S. Mauri. Parisiis: apud Ludovicum Roulland, viâ Jacobaeâ, sub signo sancti Ludovici. M. DC. XCIII [-M. DCC. VI]. Cum privilegio Regis, 1693.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Q0kaDAj8MA0C&pg=PA131

    ===SOURCE:
    [PAGE 276 : right column]

    Marcus Celedensis, fifteen years later, quotes it.
    "To us there is one Father, one Son, a true God, and one Holy Spirit, a true God, and these three are one."
    Et hi tres unum sunt.

    ==
    Ben David. Letter to the Editor. The Monthly Repository. (May 1826), No. 245, vol 21.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=GX4UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA276

    ===SOURCE:
    [PAGE 351]
    The second is from the Expositio fidei to Cyrillus:
    "To us there is one Father, and his only Son, the true God; and one Holy Ghost, the true God; and these three are one,"
    et hi tres unum sunt, "one divinity, and power, and kingdom."

    J.T.H. "The Authenticity of 1 John v, 7, briefly examined.Chapter VII. On the Quotations of the Latin Fathers." in Christian Observer. No. 66, June, 1807, No. 6, Vol. VI.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=YK5NAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA351
    AVERY:

    Thanks, Roger, this is very helpful. Ananius appears to also be known as Marcus Celedensis in some earlier literature.

    And you can see an early allusion to 1 John 5:7 (the heavenly witnesses) in his writing.

    To us there is one ‘ Father,’ and his only ‘ Son,’ [who is] very [or true] God, and one ‘ Holy Spirit,’ [who in] very God, and these three are one; * one divinity, and power, and kingdom. And they are three persons, not two nor one, (Inquiry into the Integrity of the Vulgate, 1815 Frederick Nolan)

    Nobis igitur unus Pater, et unus Filius ejus verus Deus, et unus Spiritus Sanctus verus Deus: et hi tres unum sunt, una divinitas, et potentia et regnum. Sunt autem tres persona, non duæ, non una.

    Here it is in a Jerome work:

    Sancti Eusebii Hieronymi Operum tomus primus [-quintus], studio et labore …
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Q0kaDAj8MA0C&pg=PA131
    Explanatio Fidei ad Cyrillum
    ==
    Travis references Jerome as writing approvingly of the confession. George Travis, Letters to Edward Gibbon, 1785 p. 108. The Latin is "Nobis unus Pater, et unus Filius ejus, verus Deus, et unus Spiritus Sanctus, verus Deus; et hi tres unum sunt; una divimtas, et potentia, et regnum. Sunt autem tres Personae, non-duae, non-una" Marc Celed. Exposit. Fid. ad Cyril apud Hieronymi Opera, tom. ix. p. 73g. Frederick Nolan, An inquiry into the integrity of the Greek Vulgate, 1815, p. 291.
    ==
    Travis
    >>books.google.com/books?id=QwcrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA108

    Nolan

    >>books.googlecom/books?id=FF4UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA29

    ==
    More on Anianus of Celeda
    Posted on January 8, 2011 by Roger Pearse
    >>www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2011/01/08/more-on-anianus-of-celeda/

  4. Default

    Facebook - PureBible
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/pure...6513994440485/

    Jerome - Heavenly Witnesses !
    Homily on Psalm 92 (Hebrew Bible)
    .
    The heavenly witnesses "both three and one" ... a dangerous discussion.
    .
    ================
    .
    Jerome:
    "It has come to my attention, brethren, that certain brothers had raised the question among themselves and were arguing about how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are both three and one. You realize from the problem how dangerous such a discussion is."
    .
    The Homilies of Saint Jerome, Volume 2 (Homilies 60–96) (The Fathers of the Church, Volume 57) ) (2010, originally 1964)
    translated by Marie Liquori Ewald
    https://books.google.com/books?id=_i6VTYmF_PEC&pg=PA89
    .
    ================

    This is Psalm 92 in the Hebrew Bible, which begins:

    Psalm 92:1
    A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day.
    It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD,
    and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:
    To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning,
    and thy faithfulness every night,
    Upon an instrument of ten strings,
    and upon the psaltery;
    upon the harp with a solemn sound.

    =================

    And where would the brethren get the dangerous idea that Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are both three and one?

    Easy-peasy!

    1 John 5:7
    For there are three that bear record in heaven,
    the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
    and these three are one.

    Remember, the same Jerome, in the Vulgate Prologue to the Canonical Epistles, also specifically warned us of scribes or translators dropping this verse. So the two very independent references are corroborative. An ultra-significant confirmation that Jerome was aware that some brethren of Jerome considered the heavenly witnesses verse "dangerous". This explains their scissors approach. (This also comes up in the Disciplina Arcani discussions.)

    =======================

    Commentarioli in Psalmos (1895)
    Germain Marin
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Qh...AJ&pg=RA2-PA74

    Relatum est mihi, fratres, quia inter se quidam fratres disputando quaesissent, quomodo Pater et Filius et Spiritus sanctus et tres sunt et unum sunt. Videtis ex quaestione, quam periculosa sit disputatio : lutum et vas fictile de creatore disputat, et ad rationem suae naturae non potest pervenire; et curiose quaerit scire de mysterio Trinitatis, quod angeli in caelo scire non possunt.

    =======================
    .
    There is more to share on this .. but it is 4AM . Augustine also is in this picture, this homily is described:

    "This section of Jerome’s commentary constitutes the incipit of Augustine’s Sermo de sancta trinitate , PL 39:2173 (Appendix, Sermo 232), as noted by Fischer, 2007, 119." - The Ghost of Arius - Grantley McDonald,p. 55

    Fischer, Franz.
    “Wilhelm von Auxerre, Summa de officiis ecclesiasticis.”
    Diss. Köln, 2007

    =======================

    The whole homily is interesting, here is the next section.

    "An earthen vessel of potter’s clay that cannot even arrive at the principle of its own nature, argues about the Creator and curiously seeks to know about the mystery of the Trinity which the angels in heaven do not understand. In fact, what do the angels say? ‘Who is this king of glory? The Lord of hosts; he is the king of glory.' Similarly, in Isaia: ‘Who is this that comes from Edom, in radiant garments?’ Notice what the angels do: they proclaim His beauty, but are silent about His essence."

    =======================

    And you will see some very modern sounding discussions on issues like water baptism.

    Now, why I have not written about this earlier? Good question. I'm pretty sure Michael Maynard and I had gone over some of this before his passing in 2014.

    Josef Denk (1849-1927) in 1906 wrote about how clear this is as a powerful heavenly witnesses evidence. (Planned for next post.)

    by the grace of the Lord Jesus, I will add some backdrop to all this shortly, and we can keep the thread as a whole on Jerome and the heavenly witnesses, with some interface to Augustine.

    ========================.

    Steven Avery
    Add other two posts and commentary.

  5. Default more on Jerome and Psalm 91

    this will take from my bookmarks and earlier email with Michael Maynard and additional search

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