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Thread: Greek grammar skewed by Alexandrian corruptions - Mark 9:25-26

  1. Default Greek grammar skewed by Alexandrian corruptions - Mark 9:25-26

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    Pure Bible
    Steven Avery · March 27, 2016
    Greek grammar skewed by Alexandrian corruptions
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/pure...2964420462114/

    This is the first post, second post on the thread is also good.

    Greek grammar skewed by Alexandrian corruptions
    .
    This has come up on CARM, current thread below. Needs better long-term documentation because CARM threads poof after a year or three.

    Daniel Wallace has some doozies in grammar confusion. Let's start with Mark 9:25-26 (although there is another ultra-doozy directly on the table as well, that relates to the heavenly witnesses.)

    Mark 9:25-26
    When Jesus saw that the people came running together,
    he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him,
    Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
    And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him:
    and he was as one dead;
    insomuch that many said, He is dead.


    In the mass of Greek mss behind the TR there is no difficulty here. Pneuma for the spirit is neuter and the grammar is neuter.

    Wallace is talking of constructio ad sensum, and uses the Alexandrian corruption here (masculine participles) as the base for a truly absurd claim:

    Daniel Wallace
    There are even one or two indisputable texts that refer to an evil spirit with the masculine gender. For example, in Mark 9:26 the masculine participles κράξας and σπαράξας refer back to the πνεῦμα of v. 25.5.

    This nonsense (using ultra-minority Alexandrian variant/corruptions as "two indisputable texts" ) is in Greek Grammar and the Personality of the Holy Spirit

    What is behind this is that the ultra-corrupt Alexandrian mss have the grammar as masculine, the participles cried and rent - κράξας and σπαράξας. And Wallace builds analysis and conceptual and technical errors on the blunders of those Alexandrian scribes behind Vaticanus and a smidgen more... whose texts give us literally thousands of corruptions.

    In the pure Bible all is fine.


    CARM
    Constructio ad sensum in John 1:12
    Alexandrian ultra-minority corruptions skew Greek grammatical analysis
    Steven Avery 3-27-2016
    (no longer available)

    From Wallace, contras and cornfuseniks... error begets error.

    ========

    Note: Even if a person was so confused or duped that they thought that the probability of the original text favors the ultra-minority corruption, (ie. they are a slave to hortian Vaticanus-primacy) ... they would have to be a logical idiot to refer to their mild probability


    Steven Avery
    Last edited by Steven Avery; 06-13-2019 at 11:53 PM.

  2. Default WhichVersion discussion - 2016

    WhichVersion

    [W-V] why is the foul spirit of Mark 9:25-26 in the CT grammatically personalized?
    https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/gr...messages/47182
    https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/gr...messages/47186
    https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/gr...messages/47188

    Here is a simple question for Barry, on a verse that actually has real grammatical connections with the heavenly witnesses verse.

    Mark 9:25-26 (AV)
    When Jesus saw that the people came running together,
    he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him,
    Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee,
    come out of him, and enter no more into him.

    And the spirit cried, and rent him sore,
    and came out of him: and he was as one dead;
    insomuch that many said, He is dead.

    v. 25
    TR-Byz -
    ἰδὼν δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι ἐπισυντρέχΠµÎ¹ ὄχλος ἐπετίμησεν Ï„á¿· πνεύματι Ï„á¿· ἀκαθάρτῳ λέγων αὐτῷ, Τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἄλαλον καὶ κωφὸν ἐγὼ σοι ἐπιτάσσω ἔξελθε ἐξ αὐτοῦ καὶ μηκέτι εἰσέλθῃς εἰς αὐτόν
    Alex -
    ἰδὼν δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι ἐπισυντρέχΠµÎ¹ ὄχλος ἐπετίμησεν Ï„á¿· πνεύματι Ï„á¿· ἀκαθάρτῳ λέγων αὐτῷ τὸ ἄλαλον καὶ κωφὸν πνεῦμα ἐγὼ ἐπιτάσσω σοι ἔξελθε ἐξ αὐτοῦ καὶ μηκέτι εἰσέλθῃς εἰς αὐτόν

    v.26
    TR-Byz - Καὶ κράξαν, καὶ πολλὰ σπαράξαν αὐτόν, ἐξῆλθεν· καὶ ἐγένετο ὡσεὶ νεκρός, ὥστε πολλοὺς λέγειν ὅτι ἀπέθανεν.
    Alex - καὶ κράξας καὶ πολλὰ σπαράξας ἐξῆλθεν· καὶ ἐγένετο ὡσεὶ νεκρὸς ὥστε τοὺς πολλοὺς λέγειν ὅτι ἀπέθανεν.

    Daniel Wallace, based on CT text, in Greek Grammar
    :
    "... in Mark 9:26 the masculine participles κράξας and σπαράξας refer back to the πνεῦμα of v. 25.
    (p. 98)"


    Why does your Greek text, which you affirm as surely, probably, maybe, the purified word of God, have this foul spirit with masculine grammar?


    Thanks!

    Steven Avery
    Barry Hofstetter
    Constructio ad sensum, probably viewing it as inhabiting the boy. This
    could lend a bit of support for the ad sensum argument at 1 John 5:7-8.
    47188 is missing online, can get it from my email archives.

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